Staff of Power

[TYPO5478]

For the other side of the argument, it says the wielder of a staff of power gets the luck bonus. Once it's out of charges it is a +2 quarterstaff, and a staff of power no longer. The bit of help there is that it says "it remains a +2 quarterstaff," rather than becomes a +2 quarterstaff.

That's funny: I was going to use the same argument in the opposite direction. The description of wands, for example, says that a wand with no charges "is just a stick." The definition of staves has no such description. So, presumably, a staff that runs out of charges is still a staff of that type, just with no charges. Ergo, a Staff of Power with zero charges is still a Staff of Power and hence should still confer the Luck bonus as normal. What is interesting is the fact that the only utility a Staff of Power is described as losing once it runs out of charges is the retributive strike.

It doesn't cost charges to get the luck effect, so lack of available charges doesn't affect that ability, unlike the smite ability of a charged staff of power.

Actually, the "smiting" ability only uses charges to double its damage, and thus doesn't truly depend on charges to operate (presumably). I have to admit, this has been one of the most confusing things in the Staff of Power's description: "its wielder may use it to smite opponents." Smite how? Like a Paladin? Like the spell Holy Smite? Smite Evil? Smite Good? Smite Opposite Alignment? Smite Anything? Or does it simply mean to smite (small 's') as a synonym of to hit or to strike? That they would include a game term like "smite" in the description and then neglect to describe it is remarkably curious... not to mention confusing. Is there a definition of a general Smite attack that I've missed?

 

[BlueBlackRed]

If I recall correctly, previous editions turned it into a standard +2 quarterstaff after it was emptied of charges.

 

[TYPO5478]

If I recall correctly, previous editions turned it into a standard +2 quarterstaff after it was emptied of charges.

Lots of things have changed across editions. I'm specifically talking about 3.5e. As werk pointed out, the Staff of Power isn't changed into a +2 quarterstaff; it remains one. Why shouldn't it also remain a Staff of Power?

 

[IcyCool]

Lots of things have changed across editions. I'm specifically talking about 3.5e. As werk pointed out, the Staff of Power isn't changed into a +2 quarterstaff; it remains one. Why shouldn't it also remain a Staff of Power?

Because it doesn't say that it does?

 

[Artoomis]

No, it's pretty clear it remains a +2 quarterstaff ONLY. No other bonuses.

...The wielder of a staff of power gains a +2 luck bonus to AC and saving throws. The staff is also a +2 quarterstaff, and its wielder may use it to smite opponents...

After all charges are used up from the staff, it remains a +2 quarterstaff. (Once empty of charges, it cannot be used for a retributive strike.)

Put the two sentences togetehr:

The staff is also a +2 quartstaff... After all charges are used up...it remains a +2 quarterstaff.

It's pretty clear. The staff may be MANY things before the charges are all used up, but, after that, it gets to remain a +2 quarterstaff - not a "Staff of Power" any longer.

 

[werk]

Because it doesn't say that it does?

Staff of the Woodlands "The staff may be used as a weapon, functioning as a +2 quarterstaff. The staff of the woodlands also allows its wielder to pass without trace at will, with no charge cost. These two attributes continue to function after all the charges are expended."

Retains secondary powers after charges are expended.

Staff of the Iceberg is the same, from Frostburn.

Precedent?

 

[Artoomis]

Staff of the Woodlands "The staff may be used as a weapon, functioning as a +2 quarterstaff. The staff of the woodlands also allows its wielder to pass without trace at will, with no charge cost. These two attributes continue to function after all the charges are expended."

Retains secondary powers after charges are expended.

Staff of the Iceberg is the same, from Frostburn.

Precedent?

Actually, that makes it all the more clear that the Staff of Power does NOT get the +2 AC/Saves bonus because it is NOT specifically mentioned as it is in your two examples.

Now if you want to know whether is SHOULD, that's a different thing all together...

 

[TYPO5478]

Because it doesn't say that it does?

See, this is where it gets into a discussion based on omission (like the Sunder debate). The rules don't say what happens to staves once they run out of charges the way they do for other charged items. Should we assume that this lack of information implies that they operate similarly to those other items despite their differences or that they work differently despite their similarities? Either way, our decision is still interpretive.

 

[Goldmoon]

IMO, the intent is that the staff just becomes a +2 staff once all charges are expended. Thats the ruling I'd use.

 

[TYPO5478]

It's pretty clear. The staff may be MANY things before the charges are all used up, but, after that, it gets to remain a +2 quarterstaff - not a "Staff of Power" any longer.

Actually, the description doesn't say that it isn't a Staff of Power any longer (though the +2 Luck bonus does depend on it being a Staff of Power). Nor does the general description of staves say that a staff with no charges is anything other than what it was while it still had charges (the way, again, that the general description of wands does). That's my point. It's just out of charges. A staff that has no abilities other than to use charges to cast spells doesn't do a whole lot once the charges are used up. But the ones that do have abilities not based on charges seem to retain their usefulness. E.g. a Staff of Fire that runs out of charges is still a Staff of Fire; it just isn't really good for much. On the other hand, an uncharged Staff of Woodlands still retains the qualities that weren't charge-dependent.

There is only one ability of a Staff of Power that explicitly remains after the charges are gone (besides, obviously, the ones on which charges must be spent): +2 enhancement bonus on the quarterstaff. Likewise, there is only one ability that explicitly doesn't remain after the staff is out of charges: Retributive Strike (I suppose the Retributive Strike could be considered "charge-dependent," but only by virtue of the fact that it disappears once the charges are gone). Of the abilities undescribed, I count two that do not require spending charges: +2 Luck bonus to saves and AC, and the nebulous "smite."