Staff of Power

[IcyCool]

But the ones that do have abilities not based on charges seem to retain their usefulness. E.g. a Staff of Fire that runs out of charges is still a Staff of Fire; it just isn't really good for much. On the other hand, an uncharged Staff of Woodlands still retains the qualities that weren't charge-dependent.

You'll note that they retain the usefullness that they are stated as retaining. Ultimately, this is your GM's call, and the rules certainly seem to lean his way. Personally, I'd let you keep the staff of power benefits after you ran out of charges (except for the Retributive Strike, of course). But I wouldn't let you do something silly like create or buy a Staff of Power that's out of charges.

Good luck with your GM, let us know how it goes.

 

[Vorput]

I suppose the moral of this story is to save that last magic missile then...

Vorp

Though as I said above, I fall on the side of it maintains its bonuses.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I'm of the oppinion that it keeps the +2 saves/AC. If staves lost all abilities when they ran out of charges, then it would not need to point out the fact that it lost the retributive strike ability. Because they explicitly pointed this out, I think that implies that no other abilities are lost.

 

[werk]

I suppose the moral of this story is to save that last magic missile then...

I almost posted that as the Moral of this Thread, don't use the last charge. <shakes fist at Vorput>

Likewise, there is only one ability that explicitly doesn't remain after the staff is out of charges: Retributive Strike (I suppose the Retributive Strike could be considered "charge-dependent," but only by virtue of the fact that it disappears once the charges are gone).

Retributive Strike is rather dependent upon charges for damage.

...and how pitiful would it be to crack your one-charge-left Staff of Power over your knee and do 8 points of damage and it destroys you!

 

[TYPO5478]

I suppose the moral of this story is to save that last magic missile then...

Believe me, I've thought of that.

 

[TYPO5478]

Retributive Strike is rather dependent upon charges for damage.

The damage, yes, but not the act itself.

...and how pitiful would it be to crack your one-charge-left Staff of Power over your knee and do 8 points of damage and it destroys you!

Hadn't thought of that. That would suck.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'd rule just plain +2 Quarterstaff as well. The various cites in this thread seem fairly clear to me.

 

[evilbob]

See, this is where it gets into a discussion based on omission (like the Sunder debate). The rules don't say what happens to staves once they run out of charges the way they do for other charged items. Should we assume that this lack of information implies that they operate similarly to those other items despite their differences or that they work differently despite their similarities? Either way, our decision is still interpretive.

This excellently written summation pretty much exactly describes this debate in my opinion: some read the description and see it "obviously" one way; others read it and see it "obviously" the other way. The text can be used to "prove" each one as far as I'm concerned. It really just comes down to personal choice on the part of the GM, and what they consider the stronger precedent.

Personally, I'm inclined to say after reading it that it's just a +2 quarterstaff (sorry TYPO!), but I can certainly respect any opinion to the contrary.

 

[nameless]

Here's another way to look at it: What other charged items out there have continuous abilities not depending on using any charges?

Luck blade, Staff of the Woodlands, Staff of the Iceberg? They all keep all of their non-charge related abilities when they run out of juice. I don't think any others explicitly lose non-charged abilities when they run down either. Given that, wouldn't there be a noteworthy tendency to assume that the intent of items worded like that keep all of their non-charged abilities when their charges run out?

 

[smootrk]

I have the opinion that it should retain the secondary effects... just a personal opinion, althought I can understand opposing views.

As a secondary question related to this - How much to take the non-charged former Staff of Power (now a +2 QStaff (with possible lingering effects)) and re-make it into a fully powered Staff of Power? Would you make it cheaper to re-create than starting from stratch? If so, how much cheaper would you make the staff?

This could possibly also be based from starting with a standard +2 QStaff. How much cheaper to create - would you simply deduct the price of a +2 Staff?