Staples refuses to print my PDFs....

[Dannyalcatraz]

You cannot expect a copy shop clerk, or even manager to interpret copyright law, period.

Actually, I expect anyone who deals with any kind of law to interpret it- I just don't neccessarily expect them to do so properly.

You can expect a company who publishes a .pdf to correctly indicate how someone can use the material in the Copyright Notice

And despite notices even on pre-printed materials- like the aforementioned character sheets- some copy shops ignore the express intent of the IP holder, thus violating the rights of the customer.

Its in solving problems like that that the proposed coding I described (if possible) would be effective, not true mass piracy. If the Kinkos employee loads the PDF onto his equipment for copy and gets a "green light," its copied. If not, Kinko's can't copy the PDF.

No decision making process by someone ill-equipped for the task involved.

Even if the coding solution is not possible, it should be possible for the companies' legal departments to draft a simple decision tree that most people could follow with relative ease...

Perhaps their best overall course would be to chart some kind of middle ground.

For instance, when in doubt, they could make a single copy and note it (and the customer's ID) in a company database. The person in question could then not make another copy of the same IP at any store in their system for X amount of time. The physical copy of the questionable IP could be watermarked.

In the interim, it would be the company's duty to ascertain whether copying the IP again was permissible. If it is, then they clear that data from their records and give the customer a non-watermarked copy.

Would this cause a delay? Sure. OTOH, it does protect IP rights and a legit customer would evenutally get full use of his purchase.

Is this delay a horrible imposition? I don't think so. I have to deal with similar issues when I deposit large checks ($10K+)- the bank has the check, but doesn't let me use all of the money at once. Instead, it releases the funds to my use over time (usually 1-2 weeks).

In comparison, not being able to make multiple copies of a PDF immediately seems trivial.

If it works for banking, a similar system could work for IP protection in the realm of consumer copying.

 

[TheYeti1775]

For instance, when in doubt, they could make a single copy and note it (and the customer's ID) in a company database. The person in question could then not make another copy of the same IP at any store in their system for X amount of time. The physical copy of the questionable IP could be watermarked.

So the Company get to persume guilt until innocence. This one doesn't pass the smell test either of viability.

Would this cause a delay? Sure. OTOH, it does protect IP rights and a legit customer would evenutally get full use of his purchase.

Again back to the assumption of guilt first.

Is this delay a horrible imposition? I don't think so. I have to deal with similar issues when I deposit large checks ($10K+)- the bank has the check, but doesn't let me use all of the money at once. Instead, it releases the funds to my use over time (usually 1-2 weeks).

Yes it is an imposition, and why is it he Government's business how much I put into or take out of a bank on any given day? O that's right cause of the 'War on Drugs', it's for the children. Personally I think it's another law that is a crock of roach dung (doesn't rate for bull). And how many know the bank is now required to report over $6k transactions to the IRS, you only have to fill the paperwork when you reach $10.
Sorry I don't give up my rights to anyone, at least the ones I'm still allowed to have. I'll be long dead before tatooed and sent off.

In comparison, not being able to make multiple copies of a PDF immediately seems trivial.

How is eroding rights trival? Here I'll give you an example of a time when it does matter.
Your a Self-Publisher, at a con, and your planning on running a game. You need 6 copies of the adventure as you are rewarding the players with copies. Your mail shipment (a lot of companies will ship heavy handouts ahead of time) does not arrive you have 2 hours before game kick off. You goto your Local Copy Shop and they say no only one copy until we check your copyrght info. O we are going to watermark it too as such.

If it works for banking, a similar system could work for IP protection in the realm of consumer copying.

Ah but it doesn't work for banking, criminals simply stay away from banks. All the laws in the world will not stop a criminal. If you are breaking one law what's one more law. Much like the old death row saying. "The first one is the one being punished for all the rest are for free."

Danny don't take this the wrong way, it's just I find lawyers think laws can fix everything, just like us programmers think coding can fix everything. It can't. But one thing I can't stand is when people willingly give up their rights.

Alright, enough ranting time to go feed Henry Bowman's hogs.

 

[prosfilaes]

Such a thing is already well implemented. Example: I needed to buy the EIA-608 closed caption specifications for work. 160$$ pdf. Required a specific plugin for adobe acrobat from the company that sells these standards. Authorizes the one(1) computer that you open the file on. Thats it. Cannot be opened on any other computer. Authorizes the file to be printed Once. This was well over a year ago.

Which is a serious annoyance, which I wouldn't put up with if I had an option, like for roleplaying material. And once you've printed the file, you can make as many copies as you want without much problem.

 

[Psion]

I would SERIOUSLY recommend that people check out the price of consumables for their printers before buying them...if you intend to buy them local, you can see the prices for toner right next to it on the shelf.

That's really only tells half of the story. The price tag doesn't tell me how long it lasts.

I got an epson because my last 2 HP printers were so stinkin' unreliable (both printers had significant paper feed issues, and the last, like HP computers I have owned, suffered problems with power and comm jacks). But I am finding that the epson ink cartridges don't last near as long as the HP cartridges.

 

[Jim Hague]

Just as an FYI, typical laser cartridges last 3000-5000 pages, depending on print density and whether you use the toner saver. Even the half-size ones typically go 2000-3000 pages. And again, most printing at home is monochrome anyway, so a good $100-150 laser will do you just fine.

For everything else, there's LuLu and PrintFu.

Of course, there may be a cottage-sized growth market for savvy printers willing to do small runs; witness the fellow here that prints game maps. Has anyone gotten maps from them?

 

[SteveC]

That's really only tells half of the story. The price tag doesn't tell me how long it lasts.

I got an epson because my last 2 HP printers were so stinkin' unreliable (both printers had significant paper feed issues, and the last, like HP computers I have owned, suffered problems with power and comm jacks). But I am finding that the epson ink cartridges don't last near as long as the HP cartridges.

I completely agree. Before you make a purchase like this it really pays to research all aspects of it, and check out objective third party reviews online. I have been involved with buying a lot of printers where I work, and we pretty much exclusively buy HP, because that's what our corporate offices expect. At home I'm using the same Samsung printer I've had for...oh...five years. And I print a lot.

Research is key, as a lot of the time the big companies can make junk.

Okay, now back to our discussion of "Staples Copyboy, Attorney at Law..."

--Steve

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So the Company get to persume guilt until innocence.

Every security system in the world- locks, guards, surveillance- could be described the same way.

You could always minimize security protocols and simply roll the costs of theft into the product.

I know- people hate that when discussing recording media- but the truth is, costs of theft are rolled into the prices of every commercial product.

How is eroding rights trival?

Every "right" has a corresponding "duty," and often "rights" are in conflict.

Where you're seeing the rights of the consumer eroding, an IP holder may see his rights being defended from eroding.

Fact of the matter, just as every security measure can be described as "presuming guilt," they can equally be framed as a discussion of the erosions of rights.

The trick is to find the balance point between security measures and people's rights, which also determines what, in Economics, is sometimes called the optimal amount of crime in a society.

Here I'll give you an example of a time when it does matter.
Your a Self-Publisher, at a con, and your planning on running a game.<snipped a good example>

That's a bummer, but much less of one than my not being able to access all of my bank account the day I deposited a big check so my office rent check bounces.

Its also less likely. Remember, the restricted copying/watermarking only occurs when the printer is suspicious of your right to have multiple copies of something.

In your example, it should be fairly easy for you to prove your ID as the publisher or agent of your company in order to get those copies made- assuming you have some kind of Con pass describing you as an exhibitor/salesman/organizer, a business card, company letterhead etc. In that case, you have all the hallmarks of someone who has a legitimate reason to make multiple copies of the product in your hand. If the print shop is an outlet of the one you use back home, they may even have record of your past business or their own way to prove your ID, thus, the legitimacy of your abilty to ask that the IP in question be printed.

Failing that, get their addresses and mail it to them after the Con, with your apologies & a personal message & autograph.

At best, you've described an inconvenience.

Ah but it doesn't work for banking, criminals simply stay away from banks.

Not every criminal stays away from banks...just the ones on the blue-collar side, those on the run. White collar criminals love banks.

But again, the aim of something like this is not to stop the pirate who is trying to run off 50K copies of something for personal gain- as you suspect, those guys operate in ways that wouldn't be touched by this (like the Chinese manufacturing plants that make legitimate products during regular hours, and pirated products during "off-shift" periods...using the same machines and material), its to stop the IP equivalent of the petty thief or shoplifter.

Trivial? Not even. Petty IP infringement is a costly drain, and it is a trend on the upswing.

Danny don't take this the wrong way, it's just I find lawyers think laws can fix everything,

Nah- they just provide a framework for society. Not everything can be fixed.

Sometimes, for the good of society, people have to get ripped off. Sometimes, for the good of society, people have to be inconvenienced. Sometimes, for the good of society, people get fined or sent to jail (or both).

But one thing I can't stand is when people willingly give up their rights.

Which people?

Which rights?

 

[darthkilmor]

Which is a serious annoyance, which I wouldn't put up with if I had an option, like for roleplaying material. And once you've printed the file, you can make as many copies as you want without much problem.

I agree, had I any other place to get the document I would have. Half a day of internet searching was fruitless so...We bought it, printed it, and immediately made another copy.

Of course once we're all running on Trusted Computing(or some variant), and can only print and copy with Trusted Devices, it would probably get printed with an invisible to the human eye watermark that the copier would then see and say "Hey, you can't copy this!".

But to address the original point, from Staples to Joe's Copy Hut, they should not be preventing people from printing pdf's. They only thing they should do is not copy an entire book, imho. If publishers were Really Serious about printing rights, they'd do what I mentioned above(probably an expensive option though, it was a 160$$ pdf). And then if Staples prints it, it counts against whatever server has to auth them to print it, and you've got N-1 prints left.

QED.

 

[darthkilmor]

That's a bummer, but much less of one than my not being able to access all of my bank account the day I deposited a big check so my office rent check bounces.

Isn't that more of a "You dont have enough of a balance to cover the amount of this check in case it bounces, so we have to wait for it to clear."

Except that nowadays dont checks clear pretty insta-matically? Of course banks would/are? still do the "up to a week to clear" which is really a "thanks for the 3-7 day interest-free loan".

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Isn't that more of a "You dont have enough of a balance to cover the amount of this check in case it bounces, so we have to wait for it to clear."

Nope. I generally don't have that problem, and I still have to wait for big checks to clear completely.

Except that nowadays dont checks clear pretty insta-matically? Of course banks would/are? still do the "up to a week to clear" which is really a "thanks for the 3-7 day interest-free loan".

Most checks clear within 24 hours, so yes, they are basically still applying the old rules in the era of new tech in order to get a few days of enjoying your cash.