Star Trek Star Trek, Paramount+, and a Defense of the Greatest Star Trek Captain


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S'mon

Legend
Also, the showrunners also wanted you to like the characters on Enterprise, and they were going to KEEP THEM SHOWERING until you did!

I wonder what Jolene Blalock thought of getting 'decontaminated' practically every episode. Enterprise certainly wasn't shy of the fanservice.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I wonder what Jolene Blalock thought of getting 'decontaminated' practically every episode. Enterprise certainly wasn't shy of the fanservice.

That's the thing- Seven (in VOY) was arguably too much. But Enterprise went way too far.

I'm not against the sexy, far from it. Nor am I against the sexy in Trek- it's always been there from the beginning, whether overt (Kirk's raging libido) or covert (the birth of the Kirk/Spock slashfic).

But ... the thing is ... Trek shows are also extended, usually optimistic, workplace dramas. Except if people were awesome and cared about science. So when a show like Enterprise pushed the skeevy in the skivvies too far, it gets really icky, because we are supposed to think of these people as a happy group of co-workers, not as a bunch of horndogs salaciously applying creams to each other in the shower. Every. Darn. Episode.

Yet again how that show just tragically misunderstood what people really wanted. In fairness (and it's really tough for me to be fair about that show), seasons 3 and 4 almost made it halfway worthwhile, before it Dexter-ized the finale.
 

Vael

Hero
It was annoyingly othering. Every other Vulcan except for T'Pol wore robes, only Seven and T'Pol were stuck in those catsuits. And some of the outfits they put Jeri Ryan in had her passing out from lack of air. And ... when they were allowed into regular uniforms, they still looked gorgeous. Same with Deanna, Troi looks so sharp in the blue Starfleet uniform.
 

payn

Legend
...it didn't last, did it.

Really, that should be the tell-tale sign. It's great for weeding out people on the first date. Just start playing the Enterprise theme music and look at their reaction ... anything but revulsion and disgust? Check please!
It did not. I recall the last winter season a co-worker thought they were funny and asked if I "went to Jared". I said, "No, I went to U-haul. Surprise baby pack your sh@#"
 


Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I'd like to know if Bakula's performance annoys me because of choices he made or that the writers or showrunners made.

I wish they had stuck with the original idea of having the Vulcan science officer be T'Pau.

Knowing Enterprise, they probably would have chosen the wrong T'Pau.

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ART!

Legend
That's the thing- Seven (in VOY) was arguably too much. But Enterprise went way too far.

I'm not against the sexy, far from it. Nor am I against the sexy in Trek- it's always been there from the beginning, whether overt (Kirk's raging libido) or covert (the birth of the Kirk/Spock slashfic).

But ... the thing is ... Trek shows are also extended, usually optimistic, workplace dramas. Except if people were awesome and cared about science. So when a show like Enterprise pushed the skeevy in the skivvies too far, it gets really icky, because we are supposed to think of these people as a happy group of co-workers, not as a bunch of horndogs salaciously applying creams to each other in the shower. Every. Darn. Episode.

Yet again how that show just tragically misunderstood what people really wanted. In fairness (and it's really tough for me to be fair about that show), seasons 3 and 4 almost made it halfway worthwhile, before it Dexter-ized the finale.

It was annoyingly othering. Every other Vulcan except for T'Pol wore robes, only Seven and T'Pol were stuck in those catsuits. And some of the outfits they put Jeri Ryan in had her passing out from lack of air. And ... when they were allowed into regular uniforms, they still looked gorgeous. Same with Deanna, Troi looks so sharp in the blue Starfleet uniform.
Yeah - "sexy" doesn't mean "revealing", "skin-tight", let alone "semi-naked goo-slathering". Full, normal-clothing uniforms can be sexy. Suits can be sexy. Showrunners or whoever makes those decisions: get over your fetishes and let the actors just look good.
 


Ryujin

Legend
Yeah - "sexy" doesn't mean "revealing", "skin-tight", let alone "semi-naked goo-slathering". Full, normal-clothing uniforms can be sexy. Suits can be sexy. Showrunners or whoever makes those decisions: get over your fetishes and let the actors just look good.
And in a military or paramilitary environment you can also make them, you know, actually uniforms.
 

MGibster

Legend
For the fictional Captains, I put Kirk at #1, but only because he got a death scene that was not in an alternate universe or reversed by time travel or any other hooey.
Oh, my. Kirk's death had all the emotional impact of me losing my favorite dish rag. It was a meaningless death in a bad story.

But I still place him as the #1 captain. Picard is a close 2nd, but Kirk wasn't as smug as Picard so that helps.
 

MGibster

Legend
The intro suggests that NX-01 was named after the Shuttle. And then the TOS Enterprise was obviously named after the NX-01. Thus, in-universe there is a mystery of where did the Shuttle get its name…
Enterprise has been a common enough ship name that it shouldn't be much of a mystery.
 

ART!

Legend
Oh, my. Kirk's death had all the emotional impact of me losing my favorite dish rag. It was a meaningless death in a bad story.

But I still place him as the #1 captain. Picard is a close 2nd, but Kirk wasn't as smug as Picard so that helps.
And he died...on scaffolding. Crushed by scaffolding. Not even cool, futuristic, shiny-painted foam scaffolding, but boring 20th-century scaffolding.

Yeesh.
 


MGibster

Legend
Quite frankly, the vast majority of Trek deaths have been terrible with Spock's being the notable exception. Little six year old me fighting back tears as Spock tells Kirk, "I have been, and always will be, your friend." I'm going to give some points to the death of Tasha Yar simply because it was so suddenly, senseless, and surprising just like death is in real life.
 


MGibster

Legend
True Fact- Kirk also seems more French than Picard.

...you know, the captain with a slight British accent and a love of Earl Grey tea.
In the aftermath of WWIII, the Paris of Treaty was cancelled and Great Britain conquered their age old enemy France.

That should probably be Treaty of Paris...but imma leave it.
 

Nilbog

Snotling Herder
In his brief outing so far the Anson Mount Captain Pike is top of the list for me, Charisma, Bravery, Sacrifice and the Federation ideals just needs to sustain it now
 

AnotherGuy

Adventurer
I agree with your Captain assessments.

As for Discovery, they blew it with seasons 1 and 2 which were trash IMO for a whole host of reasons SO unless they changed their millenimium (Ali G) writers you know you are going to get the same trite in seasons 3 and 4.
There is plenty I still have to to watch out there (The Wire, Deadwood) to be wasting my time with sub-standard writing and current event storylines.
 

Hex08

Adventurer
As for Discovery, they blew it with seasons 1 and 2 which were trash IMO for a whole host of reasons SO unless they changed their millenimium (Ali G) writers you know you are going to get the same trite in seasons 3 and 4.
There is plenty I still have to to watch out there (The Wire, Deadwood) to be wasting my time with sub-standard writing and current event storylines.
I have to agree with you for the most part. Other than Anson Mount in season two Discovery was bad Star Trek, at least up through the end of season three (although I think it was decent sci-fi). At that point I stopped watching so I can't speak to season four. I feel like they realized the mistakes of season one and tried to turn it around but generally failed. The final straw for me was that a child screaming was revealed to be the cause of The Burn - just so, so amazingly bad.

But as far as the best captains go, I grew up with Kirk so he will always be my favorite. Archer and Sisko are the only ones who had real character arcs with growth and change during their shows so that sets them apart from all of the others. Individually though, each were a reflection of their time and circumstances so it's difficult to say one was better than the other in most cases. Archer and Kirk were more fly by the seat of your pants because humanity in space was still relatively new so a more "wild frontier" attitude was necessary. Picard was more of a diplomat during a time when the Federation was a more established and mature organization. Sisko is unique because of his relationship with Bejor and turned out to be an excellent, if sometimes ethically gray, wartime captain. Janeway was a scientist thrust into her position, but her science background also worked in her favor considering the position Voyager was in. Then we come to Burnham, who never should have been promoted. Here is one of the many issues I have with Discovery, as a character she did nothing to earn her rank and should have been dismissed from service; she was constantly insubordinate but never faced any real consequences for her actions. Maybe she is a better character in season four, but she still had a lot of redemption ahead of her before she should have been allowed in any command position.
 

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