Star Trek vs. Babylon 5

[RangerWickett]

Guys, you're missing the obvious.

Babylon 5 has an actual interconnected plot, where things from one episode affect those later.

Star Trek wraps things up in an hour.

Babylon 5 would show up, and Sheridan would start discussing with everyone how they could face this new threat. Their plan would have several stages, and would take maybe a month to set into motion.

Meanwhile, Geordi and Wesley (as much fun as Wil Wheaton is, I can't stand the character) would bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish, and then recalibrate the shield harmonics, adjust the matter/antimatter ratio, and finally stand up and adjust their shirts, which would blow up B5 in about 5 minutes.

But the explosion would rip the fabric of space-time, and everything would go back to normal, so that none of it would have happened.

 

[Salthanas]

Although I'm no expert in the techno jaron of B5 and trek I'd put my money on starfleet purely because the level of tech seems way above B5. In Trek 2 you had terra forming Genisis devices that could easily be adapted to weapons of mass destruction and then in Trek 6 you had missiles capable of causing chain reactions in stars. If Starfleet really cut loose with some of that tech I think Earthfleet would be pretty much doomed without much of a contest.

 

[Orius]

Fighters are fragile, but maneuverable. Especially EA Starfuries, which take the X-wing design and make it sing. Is that enough to counter Trek targeting? It is if you've damaged targeting systems and forced Worf to go to manual targeting. Also, if you can use Starfury fighters, you can probably use Starfury bombers (as seen in the 'suppression' of the Martian riots).

If Worf has to go manual targeting, then Starfleet gets its ass handed to it. Worf can't aim worth a damn.

Starfury bombers are somewhat pointless in a space battle, wouldn't you say?

This is entirely true. EA couldn't field more than a couple dozen capital ships, in my estimation, whereas Starfleet is hugeous.

Starfleet might be big, but how many episode has the Enterprise been the only Starfleet vessel in the sector/quadrant that was in range? Even if Starfleet has more ships, their wacky deployments pretty much screw that advantage.

if you want, we can do Shadows versus Borg.

Shadows, definitely. I'd say the Shadows have individual intelligence, where the Borg don't. They're more capable of independant thinking. It's possible the Borg might be able to adapt to the Shadows' weapons of course, but over the long run I'd say their cunning gives them the edge over the Borg.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

I feel as those I stumbled into the Geekiest. Thread. Ever.

Thanks guys, you made work go SO much quicker today.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I have to say, its WONDERFUL to see something 'vs. Star Trek' that isn't Star Wars for once.

 

[s/LaSH]

Grr. Network ate my post. Retyping.

Starfury bombers are somewhat pointless in a space battle, wouldn't you say?

Not so. Bombers have historically been useful in naval engagements. I'd cite examples if I knew the names of the battles... the primary difference between a bomber heading for your ship and a fighter heading for your ship is that the bomber can carry a much larger quantity of explosives.

Starfleet might be big, but how many episode has the Enterprise been the only Starfleet vessel in the sector/quadrant that was in range? Even if Starfleet has more ships, their wacky deployments pretty much screw that advantage.

See above for correction of my misestimate of Earthforce's size. But yes - Starfleet is really slow compared to Earthforce's hyperspace transit systems (6 months to cross the Federation, a few hours or days for B5 ships), so EF will have response and strike capabilities far in excess of Starfleet.

Shadows, definitely. I'd say the Shadows have individual intelligence, where the Borg don't. They're more capable of independant thinking. It's possible the Borg might be able to adapt to the Shadows' weapons of course, but over the long run I'd say their cunning gives them the edge over the Borg.

This was the meat of my previous post attempt. I'll sum up my points:

- Shadow co-opter parasites (see modern Centauri politics).
- Shadow cyberaffinitive human slaves (used in Sheridan's Battle of Mars); the equivalent of Trek's 'this virus will finish the Borg once and for all, no really'?
- Shadow proficiency with nanotech (Drakh Plague).
- Shadow planetbuster technology that they break out when things get serious (Borg seem to need planets, what happens if they lose those planets?)
- Shadow cutter beams. Borg assimilate energy weapons, but (as First Contact demonstrated) not physical assault. Many B5 weapons are particles of some kind (Vree antiproton cannons, the more traditional particle beams, etc etc). I don't know whether Shadow cutter beams are particulate or not, but even if they aren't, they're the kind of thing that cuts a Minbari Sharlin cruiser in half with one pulse. Something the Federation-rivalling weapons of the B5 'young races' could never hope to do - and if those weapons rival the Federation, and the Federation can damage Borg cubes, imagine what the superior Shadow weapons can do.
- Shadow hyperspace/realspace cohabitation. Supreme control over this ability means Shadows are only there when they want to be, but can see you at all times. Borg hyperdimensional architecture and transwarp tech doesn't compare.
- Finally, the Borg have one advantage: massive, massive population. (All of whom, seemingly, can mature into a Borg Queen if she's been blown up or melted this week and is thus otherwise unavailable.) This huge population (space cities in the trillions) could tip the scales the other way, as Shadows are by no means invulnerable...

 

[Darrin Drader]

Meanwhile, Geordi and Wesley (as much fun as Wil Wheaton is, I can't stand the character) would bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish, and then recalibrate the shield harmonics, adjust the matter/antimatter ratio, and finally stand up and adjust their shirts, which would blow up B5 in about 5 minutes.

No, no, you've got it all wrong. Wesley Crusher, now an adult, would use his traveler powers to become a native of the B5 universe where he becomes an awesome character that everyone likes (a la Bill Mumy, AKA Lennier, AKA Wil Robinson (Danger Wil Robinson!)). Now in the B5 universe, Wesley's raw intelligence outwieghs Geordi's lifetime worth of tech knowlege, and the entire Trek universe disappears in a thought bubble (since the power of thought is the most powerful force in the universe, you know!).

Meanwhile, now safe from the incursion of the horrid writers, Wil Wheaton has a regular acting job again and B5 gets another long-running TV series.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Shadow cutter beams. Borg assimilate energy weapons, but (as First Contact demonstrated) not physical assault

I am not sure if this is entirely correct, if you are talking to the Holodeck scene when Picard shoots them down with a Machine Pistol. As it seems, it takes the Borg always some time to adapt to a certain weapon technology, regardless how often they encountered it. (Maybe they have to download the technical data from the collective or what ever Techbabble we want to use ).
Since only a few Borg are shot on the holodeck scene, it might be that they were just caught flatfooted (so to speak) and unable to adapt.

They seem to have trouble with slower moving physical attacks (like fists and swords), but they can take some punishment. (It seems as if only Data and Worf - both known for a high strength - can harm the Borg really fast.)

There is also another incident that the Borg have no real trouble with physical weapons - Photon and Quantum Torpedos are projectile weapons, and the first contact between Starfleet and Borg did prove that at least Photon tprpedos have little effect on a Cube.

Just another thing about beaming through shields:
I rewatched the Borg Assault on the Starfleet in Startrek VIII, and it seems as if the Enterprise did not have to lower its shield to beam the Defiant survivors aboard (the Enterprise was under attack during that scene and shielded the Defiant against the Borg). They are probably still incapable of beaming through enemy shields, but their own ones pose no problems (or they can lower them partially or fast enough to not pose any threats.)

More geek-knowledge later...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[s/LaSH]

They seem to have trouble with slower moving physical attacks (like fists and swords), but they can take some punishment. (It seems as if only Data and Worf - both known for a high strength - can harm the Borg really fast.)

This could indeed be the case. I do not know.

There is also another incident that the Borg have no real trouble with physical weapons - Photon and Quantum Torpedos are projectile weapons, and the first contact between Starfleet and Borg did prove that at least Photon tprpedos have little effect on a Cube.

Of course, torps do most of their damage through radiation release (as discussed above, with reference to antimatter and engagement ranges). If one were to actually hit a cube... well, it'd probably breach a couple of compartments before the energy wave hit an internal forcefield. The Borg love those things. It probably accounts for half the reason their ships are so tough and weathered-looking.

Just another thing about beaming through shields:
I rewatched the Borg Assault on the Starfleet in Startrek VIII, and it seems as if the Enterprise did not have to lower its shield to beam the Defiant survivors aboard (the Enterprise was under attack during that scene and shielded the Defiant against the Borg). They are probably still incapable of beaming through enemy shields, but their own ones pose no problems (or they can lower them partially or fast enough to not pose any threats.)

I guess Sovereign-class vessels might have a few sophistications. They're just about the newest class in Starfleet, though, right?

 

[Creamsteak]

Minor thing that hasn't been mentions (I think) is that the Federation (and Imperial ships in Star Wars) are built with the bridge on "top". The only reason to do this has to be for show, because logically you'd put the bridge as deep in the ship as possible. It's a minor weakness with shields being the primary defense, but at least the Minbari cruisers and such place important systems in areas that aren't so easy to blast.