Star Wars IX: The Rise of Skywalker Trailer

Zardnaar

Hero
Morrus very little is 100% original. Lucas had his influences but he didn't out right copy anything and Star Wars was in a state of flux in development. He used the heroes journey template for example but there is a reason it works.

This theory has been around for a while, but IDK how familiar the good posters at ENworld are with it.

http://whatculture.com/film/star-wars-9-theory-emperor-palpatine-created-rey-as-an-anakin-clone

Its similar to one I posted about with Palatines spirit creating a new force being (Anakin 2.0), but a difference is there may be a fragment of Anakin in Rey.

Sith Spirits being an old Legneds trope crica 1994. If you played Knights of the Old Republic they're in that for example. Darth Banes spirit made an appearance in the Clone Wars cartoon as well.
 
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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Disagree on this. By "originality" I don't mean mere clever novelty. The original series was plenty original in terms of how it brought imaginative worlds to the screen. When Star Wars came out there was nothing quite like it. Sure, it was based on Joseph Campbell's ideas, but even that was something fresh and new.
It was based on much more than that.

Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe is Luke and Han infiltrating the Death Star in disguise as Stormtroopers. The Hidden Fortress is C3PO and R2D2. Dam Busters is the Trench Run (Lucas even copies WWII movie footage for the X-Wing TIE fighter scenes). The Jedi are mystical Samurai (they're named after 'Jidaigeki', a type of Samurai drama). Hell, check out Darth Vader and the stormtroopers in The Fighting Devil Dogs:

fdd.jpg

fdd2.jpg

There's books on this. I think what he made was great. But he's like Tarantino - he cobbles together homages to other things.
 
No. That's why I was disappointed he was back as director. But I was hopeful he'd try harder and bring his A-game.
Instead…
Rey rebuilds the destroyed lightsaber exactly like it was.
And Kylo is back in his lame performance-hiding helmet.
And we're returning to a planet we've seen before. Or two.
And now the villain seems to be recycled.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but now my expectations are loooooow.
Well again, its the third movie of three - so he has to make sure to tie up loose ends rather than create new ones...except insofar as they might want to set the stage for the next trilogy (e.g. maybe the Knights of Ren escape and become villains for later on).

On a side note, I don't mind Kylo getting his helmet back as he is more imposing that way. I really like Adam Driver as a quirky Indie movie actor (e.g. Paterson, What If, etc), but for me he was miscast...his greatest strength as an actor is his comedic presence which is, by necessity, entirely lacking as Kylo Ren. Actually, his limitations as Kylo Ren makes me realize just how difficult it is for actors to play the tortured soul with immense powers...I'm wondering how Sophie Turner is going to fair as Dark Phoenix.

Which makes Palpatine returning more of a problem.
This was Ren's movie. He was the big bad. It was his time to shine, restoring him as a menacing threat and a worthy villain. But having to share the spotlight as villain with Palpatine just makes it harder for him stand out.

I don't want to see him redeemed. Because we saw that already with Anakin. We've done that story.
And ending the film with him alive doesn't end the Skywalker saga. He needs to die and the bloodline needs to end. There needs to be finality.
Maybe, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Even if they kill the bloodline in this film, they're going to bring it back somehow, somewhen. Anyhow, one version of redemption we haven't seen is that he is redeemed and lives - including has to live with what he did. Or maybe he was just going deep undercover, even to the point of killing his own father, so that he could finish what his grandfather started and kill Palpatine, once and for all.


Snoke would have been more interesting if he wasn't just "The Emperor Redux". Making him CGI was at least something different.
The most interesting and original thing Snoke could have done was die suddenly.
I think something is always lost with CGI. Always. Even with nonhumans (e.g. Smaug was great, but I still prefer the dragon from Dragonslayer).

There are cool things they could do.

It'd be interesting to have Palpatine be a Force Ghost, whispering evil suggestions and guidance to Kylo in a twisted reflection of Luke and Ben.
But I seriously doubt they'll go that route.

(But it'd be neat to have a Force Ghost battle between Luke and Palpatine. Possibly with Anakin there too. Having the protagonists of all three trilogies duel it out with a Kylo Ren infused with Ghost Palpatine would be a lovely end to the Saga. But that also feels like cheap fan service.)
That would be so ridiculously over-the-top and gonzo that I'd like to see it. But can we really stomach seeing Hayden Christiansen back on screen? And don't forget Yoda! There'd be no way he wouldn't be part of the action, unless they do some big reveal that Yoda has transcended the duality of Light and Dark and follows a more Taoist style approach.


I don't mind that simplicity. Because there's still the Knights of Ren and possibly rebuilding the Jedi or something new. And defeating the First Order. This should focus on wrapping up the plot threads, and not adding more.
My guess is that the FO is defeated, the Knights of Ren make their debut but they and a new Jedi Order are more part of the next trilogy.
 
There's books on this. I think what he made was great. But he's like Tarantino - he cobbles together homages to other things.
Sure, but maybe this just points to what "originality" is and isn't. I see novelty and originality as different. Novelty is just being different for the sake of being different and is often not really original. Originality has more to do with creativity and authenticity. It might not even be novel (new/different), but could still be quite original.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Sure, but maybe this just points to what "originality" is and isn't. I see novelty and originality as different. Novelty is just being different for the sake of being different and is often not really original. Originality has more to do with creativity and authenticity. It might not even be novel (new/different), but could still be quite original.
I don’t know what that means. But anyway, Lucas copies a lot of stuff. And not in a subtle way - like shot for shot.

It’s not a criticism. I like what he made. I like Tarantino a lot too.
 

Jester David

Adventurer
Well again, its the third movie of three - so he has to make sure to tie up loose ends rather than create new ones...except insofar as they might want to set the stage for the next trilogy (e.g. maybe the Knights of Ren escape and become villains for later on).
Rian Johnson is off doing his own trilogy. I imagine it will be largely unrelated.

On a side note, I don't mind Kylo getting his helmet back as he is more imposing that way. I really like Adam Driver as a quirky Indie movie actor (e.g. Paterson, What If, etc), but for me he was miscast...his greatest strength as an actor is his comedic presence which is, by necessity, entirely lacking as Kylo Ren.
I don’t disagree. And if it was just the mask I wouldn’t mind.
But they didn’t even let Rey customize her lightsaber... She should totally have a staff/sabre hybrid. Like a glaive.

Maybe, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Even if they kill the bloodline in this film, they're going to bring it back somehow, somewhen.
I think they will, just so they can break away from the “Episode #” expectations. Shift to different types of movies. Move away from big stories expected to change the status quo.

That would be so ridiculously over-the-top and gonzo that I'd like to see it. But can we really stomach seeing Hayden Christiansen back on screen?
Christiansen is just fine. He can act as long as Lucas isn’t directing & writing.

It’s odd that he gets all the hate when Natalie Portman was just as abysmal in those films. Everyone is quick to bring up his “sand” line, but she gets a pass for the terribly, terribly delivered “so love has blinded you?” line.
*wince*

I’d LOVE the chance for Hayden to come back and try to redeem himself. Come out and surprise everyone with his Anakin.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Rian Johnson is off doing his own trilogy. I imagine it will be largely unrelated.


I don’t disagree. And if it was just the mask I wouldn’t mind.
But they didn’t even let Rey customize her lightsaber... She should totally have a staff/sabre hybrid. Like a glaive.


I think they will, just so they can break away from the “Episode #” expectations. Shift to different types of movies. Move away from big stories expected to change the status quo.


Christiansen is just fine. He can act as long as Lucas isn’t directing & writing.

It’s odd that he gets all the hate when Natalie Portman was just as abysmal in those films. Everyone is quick to bring up his “sand” line, but she gets a pass for the terribly, terribly delivered “so love has blinded you?” line.
*wince*

I’d LOVE the chance for Hayden to come back and try to redeem himself. Come out and surprise everyone with his Anakin.
Padme is a crap character as well along with Episode I and II Anakin, at least Episode III was kinder to Anakin.

I give Christiansen, Jake Loyd, and Natalie a pass though the problem is Lucas. The actor who play Rose Tico also gets a pass from me. None of them (except maybe Natalie) will win a best actor award anytime soon but they're not bad actors as such.
 

ccs

39th lv DM
Except for the fact that the Death Star would have been completely pulverized on impact, leaving virtually no trace of it - let alone a rather intact chunk, like we see in the trailer.

I'm not disagreeing with the possibility of a sea existing, mind you, or even taking issue with the chunk of Death Star existing. It just seems silly to provide scientific, logical rationale for something (the existence of the sea) in an already inherently improbable scenario (the chunk of Death Star remaining intact).

Star Wars is, in the end, at least as much fantasy as it is science fiction. This isn't Star Trek.
?? You're arguing Star Wars physics (of wich there are none), on a website dedicated to a game about elves & dwarves & s** where dragons flying is a thing....
 

GreyLord

Adventurer
Padme is a crap character as well along with Episode I and II Anakin, at least Episode III was kinder to Anakin.

I give Christiansen, Jake Loyd, and Natalie a pass though the problem is Lucas. The actor who play Rose Tico also gets a pass from me. None of them (except maybe Natalie) will win a best actor award anytime soon but they're not bad actors as such.
You know, I suppose I may be in the minority but I actually LIKE the Rose character. I think people complain about her character FAR TOO MUCH.

I think the character itself was just fine. People may not like some of the branches of story, but the character itself, I don't see the problem with her. I also think the actor did fine with what she was given.

My own take on that specific character.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Basically the same as me. I'm indifferent to her the plotline sucked but not her fault. Problem is I'm now indifferent to all of the characters, villain, hero, whatever it's all a big meh. Nothing in the other movies matters, and all the characters are dumb and dumber.

Where did all the aliens go as well? Jar Jar is annoying but at least it's kind fun to dislike him.
 

hawkeyefan

Explorer
Basically the same as me. I'm indifferent to her the plotline sucked but not her fault. Problem is I'm now indifferent to all of the characters, villain, hero, whatever it's all a big meh. Nothing in the other movies matters, and all the characters are dumb and dumber.

Where did all the aliens go as well? Jar Jar is annoying but at least it's kind fun to dislike him.
I think perhaps you're expecting a bit too much from Star Wars. Notice how all the characters you're okay with were ones introduced to you when you were a child, and all the ones you've been introduced to as an adult are "crap characters" about whom you're "indifferent".

Is there really all that much different about the old characters and the new and how they're portrayed in the films? Were Luke and Han and Leia really given a whole lot of depth in the first three films? Not really.....they were archetypical characters with little more to them. The farm boy with a meaningful destiny, the plucky princess, and the scoundrel.

This touches on the originality point that came up. Star Wars is not trying to be original. It is intentionally leaning on tropes and classic mono-mythic elements. Wizards and heroes and evil lords and so on. Now, for many of us, we're introduced to Star Wars early enough that all these ideas seem original, and it's only later on we found out how much Lucas is drawing from older material. So once we learn that, I think if our expectations for the films doesn't change at all, then we're likely not going to enjoy them as much.

Maybe you're just done with Star Wars?
 

Zardnaar

Hero
I think perhaps you're expecting a bit too much from Star Wars. Notice how all the characters you're okay with were ones introduced to you when you were a child, and all the ones you've been introduced to as an adult are "crap characters" about whom you're "indifferent".

Is there really all that much different about the old characters and the new and how they're portrayed in the films? Were Luke and Han and Leia really given a whole lot of depth in the first three films? Not really.....they were archetypical characters with little more to them. The farm boy with a meaningful destiny, the plucky princess, and the scoundrel.

This touches on the originality point that came up. Star Wars is not trying to be original. It is intentionally leaning on tropes and classic mono-mythic elements. Wizards and heroes and evil lords and so on. Now, for many of us, we're introduced to Star Wars early enough that all these ideas seem original, and it's only later on we found out how much Lucas is drawing from older material. So once we learn that, I think if our expectations for the films doesn't change at all, then we're likely not going to enjoy them as much.

Maybe you're just done with Star Wars?
I liked the new characters in the cartoons. Well Zeb, Hera, Sabine as heros and The Grand Inquisitor, Thrawn and 7th Sister made good villains.
 
?? You're arguing Star Wars physics (of wich there are none), on a website dedicated to a game about elves & dwarves & s** where dragons flying is a thing....
Actually, I'm not - I'm doing the exact opposite, pointing out that Star Wars is fantasy and only needs to make sense within the context of its own world.
 

Legatus_Legionis

< BLAH HA Ha ha >
I heard an interesting theory.

"The Rise of Skywalker" refers not to the person of Luke Skywalker, but to a cult/religious order that forms when the Resistance transmits to the universe all that Luke Skywalker, the Last of the Jedi, did to defeat the Empire.

Before the release of the title, it was rumoured to be "The Wills of the Force". An order that believed in the Neutrality of the Force, where the Jedi and the Sith used the most extreme/polar opposite views. (Currently Legends material.)
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I heard an interesting theory.

"The Rise of Skywalker" refers not to the person of Luke Skywalker, but to a cult/religious order that forms when the Resistance transmits to the universe all that Luke Skywalker, the Last of the Jedi, did to defeat the Empire.
Everybody has that theory.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
I heard an interesting theory.

"The Rise of Skywalker" refers not to the person of Luke Skywalker, but to a cult/religious order that forms when the Resistance transmits to the universe all that Luke Skywalker, the Last of the Jedi, did to defeat the Empire.

Before the release of the title, it was rumoured to be "The Wills of the Force". An order that believed in the Neutrality of the Force, where the Jedi and the Sith used the most extreme/polar opposite views. (Currently Legends material.)
Might not be a bad idea unless the Skywalkers replace the Jedi. Not a fan of that idea. Once this trilogy is done I want less Skywalkers and the Jedi to still be around. Put simply new force tradition called Skywalkers eh ok whatever its OK, Skywalkers replacing the Jedi sigh makes RoTJ pointless.
 

Jester David

Adventurer
Might not be a bad idea unless the Skywalkers replace the Jedi. Not a fan of that idea. Once this trilogy is done I want less Skywalkers and the Jedi to still be around. Put simply new force tradition called Skywalkers eh ok whatever its OK, Skywalkers replacing the Jedi sigh makes RoTJ pointless.
I like the idea of something else taking over. RotJ was neat, and them returning was cool when they were this mythical unknown. But the prequels really showed the flaws of the Jedi Order. Their failures led to the rise of the empire and the deaths of untold trillions.

Luke just going out and reforming the Jedi feels like repeating a mistake. Like the son of Mordred refounding the Knights of the Round Table.

I would actually be impressed by Abrams if he goes the route of a new order of Force Users that breaks the cycle of the Sith and Jedi. That changes the dynamic of the galaxy. That would be hella new and invigorating for the franchise, as even the EU was bound to the idea of Sith vs Jedi, which was made all the more pointless as the struggle had lasted 100,000 years.
 

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