Star Wars Saga Edition [SECR] Preview #3 is Up

[Alnag]

They might be 11 base?

Very unprobable and unwise. The whole concept of d20 system is based on some general assumptions like hidden "take 10" in AC (that's that 10+). If there is some fix number against a roll it is 10 + something because that is the aplication of the "take 10" principle.

d20 system is decimal. You have DC ladder jumping by 5 (10/2) increments, range 20 of dice (10*2) etc. Now why would anybody make the base 11?

 

[nerfherder]

Well, since everyone has "ranks" in untrained skills, there *is* a General Knowledge skill. My guess is that selecting Knowledge as a Trained skill requires you to then choose a specialized area of knowledge. I think this would be great for D&D, where characters are, by the rules, completely ignorant of even general info on common monsters that live right outside of town without ranks in the appropriate skill.

That's a very good point, and I hadn't thought of it that way. Essentialy any general knowledge check is (level/2)+INT bonus, unless you picked a Trained skill (and possibly even Skill Focus) in a specialised area. I like!

 

[Baby Samurai]

Very unprobable and unwise. The whole concept of d20 system is based on some general assumptions like hidden "take 10" in AC (that's that 10+). If there is some fix number against a roll it is 10 + something because that is the aplication of the "take 10" principle.

d20 system is decimal. You have DC ladder jumping by 5 (10/2) increments, range 20 of dice (10*2) etc. Now why would anybody make the base 11?

I was just thinking of a similar mechanic to Defences in Unearthed Arcana that used 11 as a base.

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

Very unprobable and unwise. The whole concept of d20 system is based on some general assumptions like hidden "take 10" in AC (that's that 10+). If there is some fix number against a roll it is 10 + something because that is the aplication of the "take 10" principle.

d20 system is decimal. You have DC ladder jumping by 5 (10/2) increments, range 20 of dice (10*2) etc. Now why would anybody make the base 11?

Like Baby Samurai said, Unearthed Arcana (which is where a very similar idea first debuted) used a base of 11 for NPC saving throws (and incidentally attack rolls, caster checks, etc).

 

[Baby Samurai]

Like Baby Samurai said, Unearthed Arcana (which is where a very similar idea first debuted) used a base of 11 for NPC saving throws (and incidentally attack rolls, caster checks, etc).

And I think you're the one who made me remember that yesterday – thanks.

 

[Alnag]

I was just thinking of a similar mechanic to Defences in Unearthed Arcana that used 11 as a base.

I see. (Well although I understand the possible reason... in range 1-20 on d20 the middle is 10.5), but still it is not good if you wants to let players roll the dice instead of take the fix number (as it was possible with AC). First thing, I will not like it seems.

Ok. Thanks a lot for point my attention to this moment. Now, we can return to the whole reverse engineering thing.

 

[Alnag]

New try on RE...


Level - Poor/Medium/Fast Defense Progression
=============================
1st - +0/+1/+2
2nd - +1/+2/+3
3rd - +2/+3/+4
4th - +3/+4/+5
5th - +4/+5/+6

Now... let's see if it can be the case...
Death Star Trooper
nonheroic 3 - ??? (mabe nonheroic character has no progression of Defense?)
soldier 1 - reflex fast, fortitude fast, will poor
defenses striped-off ability bonuses and "take 11"

Ref 2 (+0 non, +2 soldier) Check
Fort 2 (+0 non, +2 soldier) Check
Will 0 (+0 non, +0 soldier) Check

Chalkazza
scout 1st - probably fast ref, mediocre fort, poor will

Ref 2 (+2 scout) Check
Fort 1 (+1 scout) Check
Will 0 (+0 scout) Check

Jensaarai Defender
Jedi 5/soldier 3
soldier 3 - reflex fast, fortitude fast, will poor
Jedi 5 - reflex fast, fortitude medium, will fast

Ref 12 (+4 soldier; +6 Jedi) not Check (strange? Armor?)
Fort 9 (+4 soldier; +5 Jedi) Check
Will 8 (+2 soldier; +6 Jedi) Check

Han Solo
Scoundrel 5 ref fast, fort and will medium
Soldier 2 ref and fort fast, will medium
Ace Pilot 1 ref and will fast, fort poor (just guessing)
Gunslinger 1 ref medium, fort and will fast (just guessing)

Ref 12 (+3 soldier; +6 scoundrel; +2 ace, +1 gun) Check
Fort 10 (+3 soldier; +5 scoundrel; +0 ace +2 gun) Check
Will 10 (+1 soldier; +5 scoundrel; +2 ace, +2 gun) Check

In this last one, lot's of things might be slightly different, but the whole will stay the same. Anyway, even if I am a bit incorrect (which is very probable) you can see overall speed of Defense progression, which is dramatical on way or another.

Although this (or similar) variant seems probable, it does not explain everything... the strangely high Jensaarai Defender Reflex, possibility or not counting other factors elsewhere and especially defence in nonheroic characters!

 

[nerfherder]

Although this (or similar) variant seems probable, it does not explain everything... the strangely high Jensaarai Defender Reflex, possibility or not counting other factors elsewhere and especially defence in nonheroic characters!

The Armored Defense and Improved Armored Defense Talents may account for the high Ref Defense. I'm sure I've read one of the designers mention that characters could use Feats or Talents to improve the use of armour.

 

[wingsandsword]

With the consolidation of all the other skills, it seems very strange if they have still got a whole range of knowledge skills as implied by the Han Solo statblock.

If pseudo-medieval Bards can be well read enough to have 'General Knowledge', I wouldn't have thought it would be difficult to have a single 'Knowledge' skill that covers all aspects of knowledge in a general way (i.e. how well read you are). Talents could then improve knowledge specialties and stuff to provide any necessary specialisation.

I'd say "General knowledge" as a single skill wouldn't fit the movies though. Han Solo knew his way around the Galaxy, and knew the Empire and its worlds like an expert, but didn't know squat about the Force. In Episode II, Obi-Wan Kenobi might be a Jedi master and expert on the Force, but he had to go asking an old retired prospector who knew a lot more about the galaxy than him.

So, I'd say there might be a handful of very broad knowledge categories like :
Knowledge (Galactic Lore), for knowledge of governments, systems, worlds, the underworld and criminal element
Knowledge (Science and Technology), physical sciences and engineering
Knowledge (Academia), for history, literature, social and political sciences and psychology
Knowledge (The Force), Jedi and Sith lore, esoterica of the Force and odd Force traditions

 

[Cam Banks]

Yes, several times, on here and on the Wizards board. I expect it to get mentioned a few more times as people absorb information on the new previews as well

I quite like it - more experienced people tend to be able to assess the situation and react quicker.

It's a very cool idea. Basically, your initiative bonus is going to be half your level plus your Dex bonus. If you are one of those people who really wants to be quick in combat, you take it as a Trained skill, and get +5 to that. If you're even more determined, you get Skill Focus (Initiative) and it's another +5. It's genius.

Plus, this way you can think of additional uses for an Initiative skill. You and a buddy are both reaching for something outside of combat. Who gets to it first? Roll opposed Initiative skill checks. Etc.

So far, there's almost nothing I don't like about what they're changing with SW SAGA. This is a definite must buy for me.

Cheers,
Cam