D&D (2024) Stealth Errata

Really? Seeing thousands of different people all of whom have thousands of different interpretations and uses of a rule is useful? :D
Let's not go to crazy levels, dozens might be more accurate than thousands :ROFLMAO:

I find it is useful when I have a rules inquiry to get different view points, it often helps me figure out how I want to rule on these fringe cases.
 

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It would also be to one's benefit to have a group that doesn't argue at the table like folks argue on messageboards....
Thankfully I don't, I thought you might since you mentioned that you'd just have to have the same argument at the table if your players aren't also reading the forums.
 

None of that needs to be explicitly stated in the rules. It's true by definition. The words "hiding" and "hidden" aren't capitalized, so they aren't keywords; their normal, English-language definitions apply.
We're it so easy; yet we still have people arguing that if it's not capitalized, then it's not a game/rule term and it's just fluff to be disregarded or inconsequential. Just look at the 350+ post reddit thread for the errata to see some truly incomprehensible arguments of cherry picking rules.
 

It's fine to have their "normal, English-language definitions" apply, but some understanding of the expectation would help us understand. Specifically, DO THEY EXPECT that the Sneak Attack rules allow for someone exiting a hiding place and stabbing for Sneak Attack damage:

A. None of the Time
B. All of the Time
C. Just when the DM rules it reasonable
 

Has DnD ever had good hide rules? I suspect the 2024 rules are just keeping with tradition.
The 4e rules are very good imo. Covers all the normal stuff such as:

1) What happens if there are multiple people?
2) What happens if I move out of cover?
3) If I move out of cover and attack what happens?
4) Can I move quickly or run and remain hidden?
5) Is there a penalty if I'm far away from the hidden creature?

etc etc
 

And the thing about the English language is that words have fuzzy definitions. “Conditions aren’t appropriate for hiding” doesn’t necessarily mean someone or something can’t be hidden there, especially if they/it initially hid under different conditions.
The rules say, "The DM decides when conditions are appropriate for hiding." That remains the rule no matter what definition one uses for the word "hiding." One definition of the word "hiding" is "the state of being hidden." So the DM decides when conditions are appropriate for (among other things) the state of being hidden.
 

The 4e rules are very good imo. Covers all the normal stuff such as:

1) What happens if there are multiple people?
2) What happens if I move out of cover?
3) If I move out of cover and attack what happens?
4) Can I move quickly or run and remain hidden?
5) Is there a penalty if I'm far away from the hidden creature?

etc etc
It might be better to go back to 4e and see if those rules can easily be ported into 5e.
 

4e's rules weren't perfect, but they might be one of the best in the history of the game.
  • You can make a Stealth check at the end of any movement you do, if you are in concealment, cover, or outside of sight. A "distracted" target is also valid outside of combat. You get a penalty if you move more than 10 feet or if you run. (This encourages you to move slowly; ie: "move silently.")
  • When you make a Stealth check, you "target" each creature present; if your Stealth check beats their passive Perception, you're hidden from that target. Hidden in 4e means you are Silent and Invisible. You can be hidden from some creatures and not others.
  • You can remain hidden as long as you have partial cover or partial concealment, as long as you keep quiet, as long as you keep still (if you move more than 10 feet, you make another Stealth check with a penalty), and don't attack. Also, as long as a creature doesn't enter your space.
  • You have the benefits of being hidden while you take the action that undoes your hidden status (so if you make a bow attack, you'll stop being hidden AFTER the attack).
  • Surprise can only happen when someone is actively hiding. The hiding group makes a group check against the passive Perception of all the other creatures. It's a group check, so if half the group succeeds, everyone does. Each creature the hiding group succeeds against is surprised when combat starts (if combat starts - a successful hiding group might not start a fight!). Some creatures can be surprised and others not surprised in the same fight.
I really like how the 4e rules tie stealth to moving, since that's the thing that could change line of sight. Though in practice having to beat ALL other creatures' passive Perception meant that surprise and stealth was often pretty hard to pull off.

I also really like how hidden and invisible were different things. If you are hidden, attackers need to guess your location. But, you can be invisible without being hidden (because you're making noise, moving around, stirring up dust, etc.), and that still provides a benefit. Even if people can basically tell where you are, they still have trouble hitting you. And an area attack didn't care if you were hidden or invisible, so if you were in the area of a fireball, it was a problem, even if nobody knew you were there.

I don't really know why 5e didn't keep some of these elements. I'd wager it was hard to design Hide as an action while also having the more free-form movement in 5e that didn't tether moving to a distinct phase of the round. Probably not impossible, but maybe not exactly a high priority. It's less clear to me why 5e is so averse to the hidden/invisible distinction. Mmmmmaybe due to trying hard to be newbie-friendly, because the assumption is that when you "turn invisible" no one knows you're around?
 

4e's rules weren't perfect, but they might be one of the best in the history of the game.
Perhaps. However, they did completely rewrite the Stealth rules at least once ...

IMG_7411.jpeg
 

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