Stop PbP death!

[Krug]

Hmm too many PbPs have died quickly after they started out. So how should we save these poor creatures?

 

[Creamsteak]

Well, saving a game seems really really difficult to me. My dragonlance game, while being updated (hopefully) once a week now (and for a game of that size and scope, I consider that fairly often), it doesn't seem to want to get going. Perhaps I chose the wrong players to focus the most on, and that's my own fault. One of the worst methods I think, to save a game, are when new DMs take over. There was one big success with that, if I recall correctly, but it doesn't seem all to common.

On a related tangent, some things that seem to work for new games:

I'm being fairly satisfied with my game where it's just me and Gnomeworks. We are both on at similar times of day (he aims me, I respond, then we start posting at the rate of maybe once every half hour). It's going fast, and if it slows down, it's very easy to pick up. Smaller games, less games, with people that have similar free hours as you. Those are three traits that I think are really optimal. Two out of three isn't bad either (you were with me with Emerald's game, if I recall correctly, which held out until she decided that her baby wanted to be born).

More Living Enworld DMs! That's something I'd love to have more of. At least with those, the characters can stay active after a DM gives up or something happens and the game cannot continue.

Simple rules, but with decent character customization, seem pretty good. I hate games (like the epic games I've tried to run), where literally nobody understands anything about any characters except their own.

 

[Starman]

I've played briefly in a couple of games and I've recently started DMing a game here on the boards. The game I am running is atypical since it currently has just one player and he is a good friend of mine. I think that definitely helps, because we aren't just glowing electrons on a screen to each other. We're pretty close friends. That gives us both more of a personal stake in the game.

Other than that, I agree with Creamsteak that a small number of players is probably best. I think that when you get too many, play can get bogged down and people lose interest or focus. It's hard to keep the game afloat once that happens.

Starman

 

[Creamsteak]

I will say, I found that big games are alright when your very heavy on the roleplaying. Since it only takes one or two people to operate a particular conversation or task, six to eight characters can easily handle that task.

The problems, more often than not, with combat (or any other circumstance where you need affirmation from everyone to move on). Sometimes there are problems with decision making because nobody wants to be assertive, but more often than not the multiple players doesn't seem to work to well with combat. I've tried to work around that, but it is tough.

 

[Zweischneid]

The problems, more often than not, with combat (or any other circumstance where you need affirmation from everyone to move on).

Well, as in any game, the trick with combat IMO is to not be overtly uptight with the rules. Like any RPG, rules should yield to the story and not the other way round. To many people tend to forget that with D&D.

Especially things designed for tabletop game (AoO, Feats like Mobility, etc...) don't work overtly well in a pbp game. Try an approach to combat that strikes closer to novels or stories. There you can easily subsume multiple rounds, play out combat at different speed for different players, skip a few rounds with opponents merely circeling themselfs and exchanging taunts, etc..

A fight should just just be a continuation of a story, not a break from it.

Sometimes there are problems with decision making because nobody wants to be assertive,

DM's call than, just make a ruling, thats what DM's are there for.

I found that big games are alright when your very heavy on the roleplaying.

As I said, try roleplaying heavy fights. Ignore that all that powerattack & initiative stuff if it gets in your way and read up on an action chapter in your favorite fantasy novel.
The glory of the killing blow goes to the player who posts the most engaging description, not the one who's best at calculating numbers.

 

[Starman]

I know some people have done combat three rounds at a time. How well does that work out? It seems to me that with the quickly changing nature of combat that most of the time the battle will be totally different by the third round and decisions made two rounds ago will be not be the best options.

I think if players want to be indecisive, then it's time to make something happen to them to jar them into action.

Starman

 

[Zweischneid]

Also this I found to be a nice summery...

Things that make a good PbP game

1. Participation. This is both on behalf of the players and the DM. Lack of participation is the quickest way to kill a PbP game.

1a. Player Participation - When in doubt, post, even if you're not in the immediate scene. Just do an internal monologue, or ponder about something to your familiar, or even your horse! Make some conversation with an NPC or talk to another play that's not in the current scene. Post something even to let the DM know you're still alive and kicking.

1b. DM Participation - When in doubt, post. If your players aren't doing anything, check back a few pages and see if they're waiting for you to respond to something. Sometimes you forget (and players don't feel bad about politely reminding the DM about something he/she may have forgotten), so check back. If the players are dawdling, do the same thing you would do in a face-to-face game, ask "What are you doing next?" Or just drop a random encounter, have some random NPC walk by, or just have them pass by a pretty rock. Post something so they realize they should post as well.

2. For DMs, make the game interesting. It should be something you sincerely want to run, and are willing to run for up to a year or more. Considering the slow pace of PbP, a year may be a minimum investment. Make sure it's something that interests you, and something you feel reasonably comfortable running.

3. For players, make your characters interesting. Loners and those that don't talk much are harder to play in a text medium. Not that all your characters have to be outgoing, but if your guy is the silent type, make sure you put the probmathical "thousand words" into describing his actions. Finding pictures of your characters (Elfwood is good for this, use their Google domain search listed in the linked page) or their equipment makes things much easier to picture for both your fellow players and the DM.

4. Agree on the rules. If the DM indicates he/she's only using certain books, try not to push for material from just "this one other book that I have." If everyone does this, the DM slowly goes insane, and that's a bad thing. I've been guilty of this in the past as a player, but the more I DM, the less I find myself asking for additional books as a player. It can get very confusing, and most DMs only want to check the books that they actually own.

4a. Be careful about making up your own items, particularly in high level or epic games. Trying to deconstruct the item creation rules at high levels causes headaches. Stick with pre-made items, and be conservitive with things that you have custom-made. This will make for less headaches all around.

4b. Just like in face-to-face games, don't argue endlessly over one rule, it puts the other players to sleep, and angers the two that are arguing. Accept the DM's ruling and move on. It's just a game people. Combat will sometimes have to be free and loose because not every DM has a super-duper map-making program. AoOs will not always be taken into account.

4c. DMs, don't be afraid to use Power Word NO! as often as necessary to keep players from running over you. That's a DM's right.

5. Keep with the tone of your game. If the game indicates humor, don't make an excessively morbid character and visa versa.

That's all that comes to mind at the moment. Maybe more later.

One problem I've come across quite a bit recently are paradoxically the long time pbp gamers with many thousand posts to their name.
Playing and DMing (I assume) in a dozend or more games, they sometimes succumb to posting only the bare essentials, giving nothing but short one or two-liners, never more than whats absolutely necessary to react to the scene and never adding any trivialities, oddities or random flavor to the text.

Obviously my experience is limited, but more than once I've felt that a few of the old-timers should could back half their games and instead play the remaining games with post of double lenght.

 

[Starman]

That's some good advice there. And Isida would know since he is quite the active PbP gamer.

Starman

 

[Thanee]

Playing and DMing (I assume) in a dozend or more games, they sometimes succumb to posting only the bare essentials, giving nothing but short one or two-liners, never more than whats absolutely necessary to react to the scene and never adding any trivialities, oddities or random flavor to the text.

Can't really say, that I share this experience. I think it depends mostly on the game, and the interaction within, and - of course - the individual. At least, that is my personal experience, tho I don't really play in a dozen games (more like half a dozen ), and I DM only one single game, since I don't think that I could manage two at the same time (DMing is a lot more work, than playing). Also some players tend to write more elaborate posts as you describe, while others tend to keep "to the essentials". I guess this has more to do with general style than playing too many games, as this is the same for players who are in only one game, really.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Zweischneid]

As I said Thanee, I might be wrong. I'm only doing pbp games for a month or so.

One of my games has a DM who writes very elaborate (and nicely written I might add) posts as well as players who make an effort to pitch in additional details, dialogs, monologs, description, whenever possible. And you know what. Its infective. I find my self giving it all I can as well in that game, I'm motivated to post the same quality stuff the others do. Not only that, I find it easy to do. There's always some quote, some nitpick, some new setting detail that I can include in my posts. Actually, there's more than I can usually fit in one post.

The other game has a DM who's going for a very laid back style of gaming, basically spelling out the bare essentials but never giving much beyond that. The game is certainly not slow, there are daily updates, but there is never any meat to the bones, so to say.
And consequently, the players mainly (with one exception) just go for one-liners as well, and I can not blame them. I myself find it hard to post anything useful in that game since there are no hooks or details to play off, no flavor to toy around with to fill a post with should there be no combat about. I already know for sure that this game will likely never see it's end, or if it does, that it'll be a drag all the way.
(including dreary combat sequences with page after page filled with more numbers than flavor text - and again, I cannot blame people for it, if there's no flavor, metagaming and numbercrunching's all there's left to do)

It may be the individual style of players, but it's certainly always afflicting the whole game in one way or another.