Stormwrack: Buying?

[MerricB]

Yeah, the days of "crunch-heavy" books from Wizards seems to have passed. There have been a heap of books that have had a lot more non-mechanical text and just some good advice and suggestions.

Cheers!

 

[Toll Carom]

We'll leave "well written" aside, as you being the author on one side of the fence, I daresay there might be a little room for bias.

I had nothing to do with either Seas of Blood or Stormwrack. Ergo, there's no room for bias in this particular discussion.

(And further, writing is a measure of author not company, and one of the best Mongoose freelancers is now working at WotC full time -- an AFAIC, he's now the best writer on the WotC staff -- so trying to pin authorial quality on one company should be pretty apparently a flawed way to look at things.)

Not true. Authors' work for RPGs is typically "work for hire," and the publisher always reserves the right to edit, alter or even rewrite wholesale a given author's work. In addition, most books are conceived and outlined by the publishers, and so even the good writers will be limited by what they're allowed to write/design (and when it comes to game books, that's a big distinction). A good analogy might be the movie model, where an actor is only so good as his director. And yet, people judge films based on the actors all the time. In fact, it's how most Hollywood movies are financed and marketed.

One of those things is re-invent their mass combat and vehicle combat systems. That's one of the places that I give the nod to Seas of Blood, because OMCS still remains one of the best d20 mass combat systems out there. It fills a hole that WotC won't be filling.

To your knowledge. But yes, that would absolutely be a fair point -- if I agreed with you. I'd rather get no "official word," and thereby know to rely on my own homebrew systems for things, than to shell out money for someone else's and have it underwhelm.

Having said all this, I will agree that individual authors have produced bits of individual gold, on an individual basis, for some products for Mongoose. On the whole, however, Mongoose produces very low-quality material, IMHO (nevermind their corporate attitude, which sucks).

Happy gaming.

--
CAS

 

[Psion]

Not true. Authors' work for RPGs is typically "work for hire," and the publisher always reserves the right to edit, alter or even rewrite wholesale a given author's work. In addition, most books are conceived and outlined by the publishers, and so even the good writers will be limited by what they're allowed to write/design (and when it comes to game books, that's a big distinction).

I know you think you are teaching me something here, but you really aren't. This would be "editorial quality" not "authorial quality", but I would not dispute that it has an impact on quality. I am aware of cases where the developer has "spit shined a turd" with respect to a submitted manuscript. Likewise, I am aware of cases where a developer and/or editor has trashed a decent work (at least one of which is on WotC's hands.) And I am aware of cases when developer limitations hold good stuff back (this one is frequently a problem with mongoose.) And good companies will have a better taste or access to good authors.

But overall, though the race does not always go to the swift, nor the fight to the strong, that's the way to bet. And author is a much stronger indicator of "authorial quality" than publisher.

To your knowledge.

I welcome the day that the directions of their product lines proves me wrong.

 

[Toll Carom]

I know you think you are teaching me something here, but you really aren't.

Not especially. Just relating my own experiences in the industry and hoping they prove useful.

This would be "editorial quality" not "authorial quality", but I would not dispute that it has an impact on quality. I am aware of cases where the developer has "spit shined a turd" with respect to a submitted manuscript. Likewise, I am aware of cases where a developer and/or editor has trashed a decent work (at least one of which is on WotC's hands.) And I am aware of cases when developer limitations hold good stuff back (this one is frequently a problem with mongoose.) And good companies will have a better taste or access to good authors.

It has a bigger impact than most people know. Most of the work done for the hobby is specifically commissioned, and given the mechanical requirements, what this ultimately means is that it is the publisher who needs to be held accountable for what it publishes. This can be less true for the smaller companies, sure, but only slightly so. And every instance you've related happens, of course, and you're dead on about the problems facing publishers and authors alike in this regard. But none of what you said really addressed the larger of the two issues I brought up, which is at whom the buck stops.

author is a much stronger indicator of "authorial quality" than publisher.

Ordinarily, yes, but as I said, RPGs are a horse of a different color, and that simply can't be dismissed or even understated.

I welcome the day that the directions of their product lines proves me wrong.

Well, I'll be around when it happens, and I look forward to picking up our discussion again, then.

Happy gaming.

--
CAS

 

[Turjan]

Well, I can only say that those old Mongoose books that I like (Chaos Magic, Quintessential Wizard/Sorcerer, Constructs, Shamans) are often by authors whose works for other companies I also like. It's clear that the editorial process can help or cripple a book (Quint II anyone?), but I definitely see the author as the more important quality criterion than the company, even if his work is hurt by bad editing.

 

[Psion]

Well, I can only say that those old Mongoose books that I like (Chaos Magic, Quintessential Wizard/Sorcerer, Constructs, Shamans)

Mmmm... nice list.

Funny how all the works I like from Mongoose are by a short list of authors...

are often by authors whose works for other companies I also like. It's clear that the editorial process can help or cripple a book (Quint II anyone?)

I was thinking of those precise words when I posted one particular phrase in a prior post...

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Again...

Are there any reviews for "Stormwrack" available?

Or at least a thumbs up or thumbs down in terms of whether or not to purchase this book?

 

[Psion]

Again...



Or at least a thumbs up or thumbs down in terms of whether or not to purchase this book?

I would have to question what you look for in a book.

If you want lots of new seafaring related subsystems, it's not real heavy on those. It does, however, have lots of usable (and IMO good) crunch, opponents, and adventure material.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Well, its still not available in this area. In any event, I'm am looking for a book that provides a decent combination of useful naval rules, sea monsters, spells, feats - but not so much new races and prestige classes.

 

[wingsandsword]

A little over a year ago I stopped buying every new book coming out from WotC. I realized that I used maybe 1/4 of my books at all, and only a handful of them regularly. Many books had only seen token use at any games, like browsing through them for ideas or a PC considering a or a feat or item from one. The $30+ I spend on each book could go to other things to improve my gaming experience, like miniatures & scenery/terrain, or other games, or saving up for Gen Con, but spending $30 or $60 a month on one or two new hardcovers I'd practically never use was something I just couldn't justify to myself.

Maybe I'm not as addicted as some other people, but I'm still happy