Swift spell as Standard Action?

[Dracorat]

Would you allow the wizard who prepared a Cold-Substituted Fireball to cast it as an ordinary Fireball when the Frost Giant comes out to play?

-Hyp.

I probably would.

 

[DarkKestral]

Would you allow the wizard who prepared a Cold-Substituted Fireball to cast it as an ordinary Fireball when the Frost Giant comes out to play?

-Hyp.

No, but honestly, I'd be willing to allow swift action spells as standard actions. It would still be a quickened fireball, just a quickened fireball cast as a standard action. I believe that the price of the Quicken Spell metamagic feat is that you pay for your option of casting the spell in the swift action space with the +4 spell levels. If you wish to use it for say... casting two spells in the same round, as is normally possible when one spell is being used as a quickened spell. However, you can't use 3 fireballs, or 2 fireballs and another spell. just the two fireballs, one cast in the swift-action space, and one cast in the regular space.

 

[Artoomis]

Would you allow the wizard who prepared a Cold-Substituted Fireball to cast it as an ordinary Fireball when the Frost Giant comes out to play?

-Hyp.

I would not, and do not see that as being anywhere near analagous to what is being discussed.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I believe that the price of the Quicken Spell metamagic feat is that you pay for your option of casting the spell in the swift action space with the +4 spell levels.

But, you pay for any other metamagic feat, too, so why not allow this option for every other metamagic effect? In other words, allow the wizard to "undo" the metamagic at casting time if he's still willing to pay the price. Energy Substitution is just the best analogy to show why that's a bad idea.

I would not, and do not see that as being anywhere near analagous to what is being discussed.

It's a perfect analogy, in fact. You're stripping the metamagic off a spell, yet still applying the cost. Just because the cost on energy substitution is not as high does not make the analogy less relevant.

I hope you are not arguing that you are not stripping off the metamagic. That's an untenable position to hold.

 

[Nail]

Would you allow the wizard who prepared a Cold-Substituted Fireball to cast it as an ordinary Fireball when the Frost Giant comes out to play?

Good analogy! (Is not Hypersmurf the Demi-God of Analogies?!)

.....but only if you consider the problem being that you are "stripping" the metamagic feat off of a spell.

I believe the problem is better expressed with the following example: "Can you cast the spell Feather Fall as a standard action (post-errata)?"

 

[Artoomis]

...I hope you are not arguing that you are not stripping off the metamagic. That's an untenable position to hold.

Actually I am primarily talking about spells with a Swift Action casting time (not Quickened).

In that case I am not talking about un-metamagicking so much as treating a Quickened spell as if it was truly transformed into a Swift Action spell. Not really the same thing.

If we had a rule as I suggest about Swift Action spells, it would apply to Quickened spells as well , I suppose, but that's far different from saying I suggest a rule about un-metamagicking spells.

 

[KarinsDad]

Regardless of claims to the contrary, a House Rule of "a swift (or immediate) action can be performed as a standard action with a maximum of two such actions" can affect game balance.

For example, many of the Psionic swift and immediate powers are defensive powers. Allowing such a house rule would allow a Psion to do certain power combinations in a single round which he previously could not do.

For example, combining Intellect Fortress with Damp Power. He could do this previously, but it took at least two rounds to get it started (i.e. by making IF multi-round).

 

[Artoomis]

Regardless of claims to the contrary, a House Rule of "a swift (or immediate) action can be performed as a standard action with a maximum of two such actions" can affect game balance.

For example, many of the Psionic swift and immediate powers are defensive powers. Allowing such a house rule would allow a Psion to do certain power combinations in a single round which he previously could not do.

For example, combining Intellect Fortress with Damp Power. He could do this previously, but it took at least two rounds to get it started (i.e. by making IF multi-round).

IF is an Immediate Action, what is DP? It's not in the SRD.

Generally speaking, spells that can be done as an Immeditae Action or Swift Action are lower powered than others.

Casting an Immediate/Swift spell plus another Standard Action is no more powerful than an Immediate/Swift spell plus an Immediate/Swift spell as a Standard Action.

I am reasonably certain that most times it is LESS powerful.

 

[KarinsDad]

IF is an Immediate Action, what is DP? It's not in the SRD.

Generally speaking, spells that can be done as an Immeditae Action or Swift Action are lower powered than others.

This is balantly false.

Many swfit and immediate spells and powers are actually very strong. Damp Power (Complete Psionics) drops damage to 1 per die. So, a 10D6 Fireball does 10 points max before the save.

The downside of swfit and immediate defensive powers is not that they are less powerful (often they are more powerful), it is that they often last only for one round.

Casting an Immediate/Swift spell plus another Standard Action is no more powerful than an Immediate/Swift spell plus an Immediate/Swift spell as a Standard Action.

I am reasonably certain that most times it is LESS powerful.

First, you have this backwards (for the POV you are expressing). IS plus Standard will often be more powerful than IS plus IS. However, there are circumstances where IS plus IS in a certain area (such as defense) can be a lot more powerful than IS plus Standard.

In either case, you really should read up on IS type spells and powers before making such a claim.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

And the moment that non-swift spells can be cast as a move action, I'm all for it.

You're not allowed to do that.

Your position, all along, is that the "By the Rules" people are only saying that you cannot make a swift action spell into a standard action spell only because the rules say you can't.

Now, you're saying that you can't make a swift action spell into a move action because ... the rules say you can't?

I call shenanegans!

After all, "common sense" tells me that if I can slow something down a lot, I can slow it down just a little bit.