D&D 3E/3.5 Switching from 3.5 to 4th as a necro

[JoRM]

Hi,

I'm new to those forums and I'm also kinda new to 4th edition though not new at DnD.

We're currently switching from 3.5 to 4th edition and I'm playing a necromancer... which isn't really easy to be in the 4th... at all!

I did a Dark Pact Warlock but I would like to be able to summon or create undead and was wondering if you guys would have any suggestions for rituals or whatever it would be to get an undead horde. The goal isn't to have undeads by my side during my questing, but more to have an army waiting at home around a bonfire... gnawing on human bones for sure!

I saw the Jürgen Hubert proposition for Animate Undead (which can be found here http://www.enworld.org/forum/blogs/...ng-undead-summoning-extraplanar-entities.html ) but I find it very costly, though maybe in the 4th players are suposed to have a lot of money but that I don't know.

Thanks for answering

PS: Also, sorry if there's mistakes in my english, but it's my second language.

John

 

[malcolm_n]

Easy route: Reflavor the summoning wizard (arcane power) to call forth undead instead.

Harder route: Keep the dark-pact warlock and pick spells (maybe even do some multiclass) which cater to the necromancer. It sounds as though you are doing this already, though, so you may be best off trying the above suggestion. I love giving examples, so here's one I've got right off.

[sblock=Necromancer Powers]Necrowarp Necromancer Attack 1
At-will * Arcane, Conjuration, Implement, Necrotic
Standard Action Ranged 10
Effect: You conjure a pillar of necrotic energy in an unoccupied square within range. The pillar occupies 1 square and lasts until the end of your next turn. Each enemy that moves into a square adjacent to the square is attacked by spirits of their past enemies and takes 1d6 + your intelligence modifier necrotic damage. Increase this damage to 2d6 + your intelligence modifier at 21st level.

Summon Blazing Skeleton Necromancer Attack 1
Daily *Arcane, Fire, Implement, Summoning
Minor Action Ranged 10
Effect: You summon a medium blazing skeleton in an unoccupied square within range. It has a speed of 6. It has a +2 bonus to Fortitude and resist 10 fire. You can give the Blazing Skeleton the following commands.
* Standard Action: Flame Orb - Ranged 10; targets one creature; Intelligence vs. Reflex; 2d4 + intelligence modifier fire damage, and ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
* Opportunity Attack: Blazing Claw - Melee 1; targets one creature; Intelligence +2 vs. AC; 1d4 + intelligence modifier fire damage.[/sblock]

 

[JoRM]

Thank you Malcom for the quick answer.

I first checked the invoker for the summons and stuff, but what I really wanted was to make an out of combat army like I was planing to do in the 3.5 edition. Though, I'll check the invoker (or wizard) again to see if I could swap in some summoning powers for the encounters. Thanks for the idea.

As for the "out of combat" stuff. I created 2 rituals (for now) to animate the undead. If any of you want to see them, here's the link to the post : http://www.enworld.org/forum/blogs/jorm/1731-necromantic-rituals-propositions.html

Don't be afraid of the text, it's simply because I had to do some rules to clarify how all of this work.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

Unfortunately, 4th ed is really not geared towards having lots of summoned creatures outside combat - almost everything that summons or conjures a creature has encounter duration. Here's what I'd do:

- Retheme a Summoner as a Necromancer, giving all the summoned creatures the same stats but calling them undead. This takes care of our in-encounter summons.
- Take a Familiar feat, and call your familiar an undead too. This gives you one permanent follower.
- Flavour all your cantrips as being performed by servitor undead. The "Ghost" in Ghost Sound could be literal; Prestidigitation and Mage Hand effects could be performed by spirits, or by a small army of physical skeletal hands. Light could be a will-o-the-wisp. This gives you a near-infinite number of permanent followers, who are each pretty versatile but can't engage in combat.
- Multiclass into Shaman, but make your spirit companion an undead spirit (or a physical undead - nothing saying the "spirit" has to be insubstantial). The "Spirits" in Speak with Spirits refers to departed souls, not nature spirits.

Now you have 2 major permanent servitors and a whole bunch of minor ones (depending on how you theme the cantrips), each with a lot of individual flavour. It's more geared to having a couple of individual followers than a horde of faceless zombie minions.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

Oh, don't overlook the necromancy powers in Dragon 372

 

[JoeNotCharles]

Also, ask your DM if they'll let you use Int as the primary stat for your Shaman multiclass powers, and use a Tome as an implement for Shaman powers (and consider your Shaman powers Arcane rather than Primal). I'd allow this since it's all done to further your class's theme and not just to min-max your stats.

 

[Mentat55]

I think wizard or warlock works fine for the character, and then just create a few rituals that create your army of undead servitors waiting for you in your creepy house of horrors.

If you wanted undead to follow you around, that might be another story.

 

[JoRM]

Thanks to both of you Joe and Ment for your posts.

The goal of summoning is more towards what Ment said : army of minions.

Here's a resume of the game in 3.5 : I'm a controller in combat, no summon spells. Though we have a keep and need to prepare for an inevitable assault from the opposite church (traps and soldiers). Basically that's about it and that's why I'd like to keep being a mage without in-combat summons and with an army of lower undead in his little realm. The goal of all of this is to not only bring the undead on the player's side via summoning or animating only, but it's also to "replace" the Undead Leadership feat found in the Libris Mortis of the 3.5. All the players had the leadership feat and I had the undead one and to be honest, it is exactly that feat that is slowing us to transfer in the 4th edition.

Though, the shaman avenue is an interesting one, really. An avenue that I will explore to see if it fits.

Also, the leadership's followers can be player (or "summoned") through roleplaying... but that's exactly what I'm trying to figure out! Hehe

PS: If you didn't see the rituals that I proposed, I just linked them with this post.

 

[feralucce]

There were some good 3.5 builds for necromancy... and a lot of REALLY broken stuff, but reading through the 4th ed powers and stuff, an army of undead would be reallly broken.

I am a big fan and I am running some ideas through my head and I may have somethings to present in a couple weeks. The issue is balance at the lower levels.

I am considering a minion system a bit like the shaman with a maximum level of undead being controlled being half your level or something along those lines... but balance is key.

 

[keterys]

Basically, the sentiment is/was that such a premise (army of minions) is detrimental to gameplay, eating up too much game time and spotlight, so it's not really supported.

Reflavoring all sorts of summons, conjurations, pets, etc can be done of course. All of your spells could include a skeletal arms grasping people, creatures running out and smashing into them, a shield spell might be a skeletal soldier who stands by you and jumps in the way of an attack, etc... but the 'I fill up half the map with my guys and roll 20 attacks a round' is out.