D&D (2024) I'm a longtime player and there really is only one thing that will stop me from switching to 5.X

[Incenjucar]

I;d say its more of a stranglehold lock down to keep folks from doing anything but straight classing. My biggest beef with PF2, though its a pretty good system if you want pin point accurate CR and tactical combat.

It does seem to be the biggest gap I'm seeing. Obviously you want to avoid multiclassing becoming the default, but at a minimum they need to identify specific bundles of safe multiclass ability combos that can be unlocked.

 

[payn]

It does seem to be the biggest gap I'm seeing. Obviously you want to avoid multiclassing becoming the default, but at a minimum they need to identify specific bundles of safe multiclass ability combos that can be unlocked.

The hardest pill for me was archetypes and multiclassing competing with each other for the same pool. Though, the very commonly used free archetype variant makes it easier to swallow.

 

[Thomas Shey]

The only real issue I've seen is that there are a lot of suboptimal options and ineffective combos without feature bridges, but that's across most game systems.

Honesty, this isn't that bad in PF2e; it actually requires some work to typically start with a suboptimal character, and most of the cases (usually some specific class setups) are pretty well known. This is not counting some things that some people dislike (low level wizards for example), but are not clearly bad, just not what they expect.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I;d say its more of a stranglehold lock down to keep folks from doing anything but straight classing. My biggest beef with PF2, though its a pretty good system if you want pin point accurate CR and tactical combat.

Out of the gate you have an argument, though free archetype is a popular option and doesn't really break anything.

 

[payn]

Honesty, this isn't that bad in PF2e; it actually requires some work to typically start with a suboptimal character, and most of the cases (usually some specific class setups) are pretty well known. This is not counting some things that some people dislike (low level wizards for example), but are not clearly bad, just not what they expect.

Yeah, you gotta really work at being bad in PF2. The first mistake is not using one of the two to three stat allotments.

Out of the gate you have an argument, though free archetype is a popular option and doesn't really break anything.

Way ahead of ya.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It does seem to be the biggest gap I'm seeing. Obviously you want to avoid multiclassing becoming the default, but at a minimum they need to identify specific bundles of safe multiclass ability combos that can be unlocked.

Actually, I'm not sure free archetype as the default would hurt anything; then those who want a multiclass can do it, and other people can take one of the archetypes that just specializes them within their extent class. Its not a huge power boost IME.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah, you gotta really work at being bad in PF2. The first mistake is not using one of the two to three stat allotments.

Okay, that's fair, but that's a problem in any version of D&D or offshoots where stats matter, far as I can tell.

Way ahead of ya.

Yeah, I think we've talked about this before.

 

[payn]

Okay, that's fair, but that's a problem in any version of D&D or offshoots where stats matter, far as I can tell.

Yeap, SAD design has become pretty common. I prefer to design for MAD, but I do agree you gotta go one way or the other and not a mix!

I think where the greenest of folks might get tripped up is the cute A,B,C stat generating system in PF2. It appears organic, but you should quickly realize you need to pump your primary or risk sucking at life .

 

[mamba]

WotC seem to be considering whether they're going to give people free map pieces for buying adventures etc.

yeah, let's not do that, give me no incentive whatsoever to use your VTT. Great idea, that will get me to use it

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeap, SAD design has become pretty common. I prefer to design for MAD, but I do agree you gotta go one way or the other and not a mix!

I think where the greenest of folks might get tripped up is the cute A,B,C stat generating system in PF2. It appears organic, but you should quickly realize you need to pump your primary or risk sucking at life .

Though I think some people overstate how much of that is true. I've seen people act like you have to have an 18 or its not worth walking out the door, and I don't think I started with that on any of the three PCs I've played.