D&D (2024) I'm a longtime player and there really is only one thing that will stop me from switching to 5.X

[wizard71]

Can you elaborate? Are you saying Pathfinder 2 regressed to the previous edition (Pathfinder 1) or are you saying Pathfinder 2 is like D&D 4e?

I am saying that PF2 is very much a D&D 4E clone. Attacks scaling every even level. Feats at every even level. Feat taxes, spells being reduced in effectives drastically. Monster hit point bloat. Its all very 4E to me

 

[ECMO3]

For context, I have been a DnD player since 1e of ADnD, back around 1982 or so by my best guess. I am a DM at heart and I buy a good deal of books overall. I have switched with every edition of ADnD into DnD, including the .5 style material. each time a new edition or demi-edition has come out, I have switched. The closest I have come to not doing this was 4e, but even that I played for the entirety of its publishing life.

None of the above is to brag, as it seems a rather silly thing to brag about. It is for context. I am a highly invested, high commitment DnD gamer and my purchase history reflects that. I have only mildly been following proposed rules changes in the playtest materials because, given my personal history, I'm expecting to switch to 5.X when it drops, cycling out 5e material as it gets superseded, just as I did with 3e to 3.5 for example.

All that said, there is one thing that will force my hand to not follow through, and that is radically changing how I interact with the game economically. for me, online tools and resources are a supplement, a tool which aids in my tabletop experience. But I want physical books. I want to make one time purchases and have a resource on my bookshelf. For its many crimes, the true failing for me with 4e was the constant rules updates and errata, the constant tinkering, that made my books inaccurate. If 5.x were to move to a digital first priority, I am going to be turned off. If it moves to a model where I pay a subscription to play as a given, rather than as ais, I am out.

What about you? Ignore rules. Ignore setting. Where is your line on DnD as a product that you pay for where you would walk away? For example, I know that one of the things that drove some away with 4e was that the emphasis on using minis was an additional expense that made people not make the jump.

If you are talking about the current 5E everything official is available in physical form and can be found relatively easy.

There is enough already sold that the 2nd hand market will never dry up, so I think you will be fine.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I am saying that PF2 is very much a D&D 4E clone. Attacks scaling every even level. Feats at every even level. Feat taxes, spells being reduced in effectives drastically. Monster hit point bloat. Its all very 4E to me

I mean in the same way 5e is a 4e clone, I suppose.

In that it's a Fantasy RPG with elements from 3e.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I mean in the same way 5e is a 4e clone, I suppose.

In that it's a Fantasy RPG with elements from 3e.

Eh. There are some stronger 4e like elements in PF2e than you'll find in many other modern D&D-oids, even if that poster is overstating it (probably from his posting because he dislikes them so they loom large in his mind).

 

[Incenjucar]

I played 4E for 8 years, and I've been studying PF2E heavily for the last few weeks, and I assure you they are not clones of each other.

 

[Starfox]

It seems PF2 managed to pick up the parts of 4E that Pathfinder 1 players disliked, yet not the parts of 4E that 4E players liked. I vaguely recall echoing another poster here at EN World that said this earlier. My personal pewees is the magic item scaling and the powers/feat that are not worth tracking because the benefit is so small or conditional.

Exaggerating for effect: "You get +1 to Survival checks to track creatures in snowy conditions at night."

 

[Incenjucar]

While I haven't had a chance to play it, PF2E has:

• Strong codification of abilities, effects, actions, etc. More than even 4E.
• A hard requirement to have skill abilities
• Heritage/species/etc. abilities are flexible and chosen throughout leveling, not just level 1
• Every class gets meaningful choices at every single level
• Multiclassing is carefully managed to prevent front-loaded dips
• Abilities work in different ways, with prepared casters, endless blasters, etc.

Personally I'm excited to try it out this year

The only real issue I've seen is that there are a lot of suboptimal options and ineffective combos without feature bridges, but that's across most game systems.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Eh. There are some stronger 4e like elements in PF2e than you'll find in many other modern D&D-oids, even if that poster is overstating it (probably from his posting because he dislikes them so they loom large in his mind).

Some but none of them are really the defining ones. No AEDU, no powers, no role-based design, no Healing surges plus leaning into alignment (until the Remaster), and Vancian Casting. plus a tiered skill system. Pretty much all the ways that matter to the point that there's a much better RPG then either of those or 5e to be had mashing them together.

 

[Clint_L]

I’m surprised, our group has switched over to the new rules already and have been updating as the UA’s were released so we kinda already have switched. I was kinda expected most people to do that but it doesn’t seem to be the case.

When the physical books come out as the finished article that will lock things in. It’s been very well received by our group. I can’t see anything controversial about them at all really. Druid maybe but then we don’t have a Druid in the party.

Our group has left it up to each player. I'm using the new rules for monk because obviously. But we also have someone playing a moon druid. She hasn't switched (even though level 9 moon druid is kinda mediocre. But she's really looking forward to level 10).

 

[payn]

• Multiclassing is carefully managed to prevent front-loaded dips

I;d say its more of a stranglehold lock down to keep folks from doing anything but straight classing. My biggest beef with PF2, though its a pretty good system if you want pin point accurate CR and tactical combat.