D&D 5E The 2024 Ranger is Actually Pretty Good (with numbers)

[Zardnaar]

Sure, nothing wrong with wisdom rangers per-say, its the idea that they are the only good option that is wrong. I'm aware that it wasn't you claiming that.

It's also a theorycraft atm. Of I'm melee I like knocking things prone. Seen it a lot on Battlemasters.

At will on a quarterstaff with a pet or variation of ECOM3 FW build is interesting.

 

[Horwath]

The claim was made that post-2024 wisdom build rangers would be the ONLY rangers. That's what I was responding to. It will mean trawling through the thread, but I will try and find it for you later.

to save you some time, I did say that WIS rangers are mathematically the best.
yes, range can be of issue, but in how many instances is that a problem?

but when you have a class and few subclasses that can have melee and ranged attack, spell attack and DC, key skills and probably the best save keyed to same ability(WIS), it's a no brainer what needs to be maxed out 1st.
IMHO, beast master pet, and summon spells should be decoupled from casting stat completely and use it's own stats and possibly spell level for bonus.

same for ability usage,
if prof bonus is favoring multiclass dips, then just write in fixed number of usages based on class level, like Barbarians rage.
I.E: gloomstalkers bonus damage: 3 uses at 3rd level, 4 at 7th, 5 at 11th and 6 at 15th level. levels when you get subclass featurer.

Pretty much all white room DPS calculations fail to take into account that it may not be possible for some or all of the combat to take place within melee range, or even within spell range. And hence we get the "I have Dex 14 and a longbow, so that's range covered" attitude. When really it would make more sense for any DPS character to focus on range.

And this lack of white room stuff means it's hard to say who comes top in the ranged DPS tables (I'm pretty sure it's not rogue though!) I suspect a range built fighter just edges out a ranger, but as pointed out earlier, (Dex) rangers are top of the switch hitter table.

now, as I said, range can be an issue, but as a ranged character, 90% of the time I have to think how to get out of melee and not worry that the lack of SS feat will prevent me from dealing damage.

in a typical dungeon crawl, you will be lucky if you can get 40-50ft of range between you and your target.
being in a city is no better.
how many battles are on open, flat plains?

 

[Zardnaar]

to save you some time, I did say that WIS rangers are mathematically the best.
yes, range can be of issue, but in how many instances is that a problem?

but when you have a class and few subclasses that can have melee and ranged attack, spell attack and DC, key skills and probably the best save keyed to same ability(WIS), it's a no brainer what needs to be maxed out 1st.
IMHO, beast master pet, and summon spells should be decoupled from casting stat completely and use it's own stats and possibly spell level for bonus.

same for ability usage,
if prof bonus is favoring multiclass dips, then just write in fixed number of usages based on class level, like Barbarians rage.
I.E: gloomstalkers bonus damage: 3 uses at 3rd level, 4 at 7th, 5 at 11th and 6 at 15th level. levels when you get subclass featurer.

now, as I said, range can be an issue, but as a ranged character, 90% of the time I have to think how to get out of melee and not worry that the lack of SS feat will prevent me from dealing damage.

in a typical dungeon crawl, you will be lucky if you can get 40-50ft of range between you and your target.
being in a city is no better.
how many battles are on open, flat plains?

Jump and longstrider are both ranger spells. Jump is hilarious.

 

[Horwath]

Jump and longstrider are both ranger spells. Jump is hilarious.

new jump is good. poor mans fey step.

 

[Zardnaar]

new jump is good. poor mans fey step.

Yup.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

yes, range can be of issue, but in how many instances is that a problem?

In my experience, most of the time. If you don't find it so, you are playing a very different game to me.

you will be lucky if you can get 40-50ft of range between you and your target.

So? There are still likely to be bodies, friendly and enemy, blocking that space. Especially if most of the party wants to melee the same target. And if you want to keep concentration, then you are going to want to keep that space.

 

[Horwath]

Now

In my experience, most of the time. If you don't find it so, you are playing a very different game to me.

probably,
we do love the Dungeon part of D&D.
and most medieval cities are just dungeons in layout with open roof while in the streets.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Now

probably,
we do love the Dungeon part of D&D.
and most medieval cities are just dungeons in layout with open roof while in the streets.

Confined spaces just make it easier to block movement. You can move through a friendly character's space, but you can't occupy it.

 

[Horwath]

how horrible is rangers capstone in numbers?

if you are archer, then you will get only 2 attacks so you will get about +4 damage per round when and IF you concentrate on HM.
so you better take 1 level of rogue for +1d6 sneak attack that will actually give you more damage, not a lot more but still you beat the capstone with 1 level dip.
and you also get +2 expertise, +1 skill, +2 languages, +2 weapon masteries and I have to mention downside also, you lose 1 HP if you take rogue over ranger at 20th level. hehe.

Now, if you take dual wielder, you will have between 3 and 4 attacks per round(DW feat), depending on how much you need to switch HM around, let's call it 3,5 attacks per round.
that will net you about +7 damage with capstone or +4,2 damage with the rogue.

so you are trading getting less than 3 damage per round more while in melee and one extra HP for losing all rogue utility you get at 1st level.

wow, what a Capstone.


I wish I was a fly on that wall when the brain trust at WotC conjured that up...

 

[Horwath]

Confined spaces just make it easier to block movement. You can move through a friendly character's space, but you can't occupy it.

I was talking about that it's rare to get line of sight that is more than 60ft long.
there is nothing to shoot at that distance except walls.