D&D General The Beautiful Mess of 5e

[Horwath]

This is one of those "I wonder how players would feel about it if I did it to them" sort of spells. I've always adjudicated that a pile of magic missiles only forces one concentration check because otherwise enemy spellcasters would pepper the hell out of the characters with magic missiles and players would hate you. This is a sort of "submarine spell" situation. Everyone loves it when they're on the giving end but hate it on the receiving end. Blue-deck MTG sort of stuff.

add, Instant death if you are knocked out with 1st level spell.

 

[TiQuinn]

Every time I see someone say “easy game”, I imagine someone complaining that video games have different difficulty settings.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

This is one of those "I wonder how players would feel about it if I did it to them" sort of spells. I've always adjudicated that a pile of magic missiles only forces one concentration check because otherwise enemy spellcasters would pepper the hell out of the characters with magic missiles and players would hate you. This is a sort of "submarine spell" situation. Everyone loves it when they're on the giving end but hate it on the receiving end. Blue-deck MTG sort of stuff.

This is a classic case of where the group should be using their judgement in how they interpret the rules.

PF2 has some great advice on the subject:

"Sometimes a rule could be interpreted multiple ways. If one version is too good to be true, it probably is. If a rule seems to have wording with problematic repercussions or doesn't work as intended, work with your group to find a good solution, rather than just playing with the rule as printed."

 

[bedir than]

The issue with Twilight Clerics and other WOTC-published broken stuff (Silvery Barbs) is that they're all considered default in D&D Beyond. If it weren't for D&D Beyond, it wouldn't be a problem. But players expect that if its in D&D Beyond, they can use it, and that ends up a big mess.

DDB not having any sort of way for the GM to limit source material for a campaign so players can't select anything outside of the GM's selected source material is a problem (yes, I know it looks like it has a setting for this but that setting doesn't work – if a player owns a source, they can access that material in the character builder rergardless of what the DM sets for campaign sources).

Time to renew our semi regular call for DnD Beyond to let a DM set the rules for character creation in the tool!

 

[SlyFlourish]

Time to renew our semi regular call for DnD Beyond to let a DM set the rules for character creation in the tool!

Or find an alternative platform we own.

I have dreams of a nice web-based compendium and character builder functionality in Foundry. No luck so far from what I gather.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Does that make it useless? Not at all. If you build a Sorcerer or Wizard who is all about Fireball and other damage spells, you'll do alright. But it also doesn't live up to the hype or the memes as often as you might think it should.

Yeah, people expect their guy to basically end the encounter with a single spell while the rest of the party sits on their thumb. D&D is a team sport. Fireball helps on that end. The wizard has 3 a day at 5th level. So what did they think, they just get to completely dominate all 3 combat encounters most DM's run per long rest?

I think AE damage should expect 2.5 targets on average for damage calculations. I do think blasts are a little low and have included implements the have effects like spending a bonus action to upcast a damage spell by a level.

 

[bedir than]

Or find an alternative platform we own.

A couple players in my campaign are running pencil and paper, because you don't need a platform. One of those is using more of the Mess of 5e than anyone else.
Others are on Beyond, but have the courtesy to create using the one-sheet the campaign has as guidance.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

Most recently with the D&D 2024 rogue thief who's "use the Magic Action as a bonus action" has really changed the entire campaign. Every magic item I give out with any sort of spell-like effect has to be balanced with the idea that she can do it as a bonus action. It also means all the players default to her to give out these items that I'd rather see other characters use. That seems like a small ability but it totally changed my whole campaign – the monsters they face and the rewards they receive.

It's wild to me that a rogue could be considered overpowered. Frankly, I don't believe it. I am planning for an upcoming campaign that will have a thief rogue and I will be showering them with magic items just to see what happens.

 

[AlViking]

I think it has always fallen to the GM to adjudicate these sorts of things and that should be built into the games we run. I now have a disclaimer at the beginning of my campaigns (which I talk about in this panel) that I tell players "hey, if something's not working out, I expect we can have a conversation about it and get it on track".

I've had to do this multiple times in multiple 5e games. Most recently with the D&D 2024 rogue thief who's "use the Magic Action as a bonus action" has really changed the entire campaign. Every magic item I give out with any sort of spell-like effect has to be balanced with the idea that she can do it as a bonus action. It also means all the players default to her to give out these items that I'd rather see other characters use. That seems like a small ability but it totally changed my whole campaign – the monsters they face and the rewards they receive.

I've DMed a lot of different groups over the years and I see no way a game with the complexity of flexibility of D&D can avoid having a DM make adjustments for their group and style of play. Whether that's the level of challenge the group faces, how often they get rests, what treasure they receive. The only way around that is to have strict guidelines on styles of play, limited options for people to choose from, more generic builds where all the classes that work much the same. Basically a game very different from the one I want to play when I play D&D.

It could done better because we can always do better, but every group is unique and at a certain point you have to settle for good enough because perfection is not possible.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

It's wild to me that a rogue could be considered overpowered. Frankly, I don't believe it. I am planning for an upcoming campaign that will have a thief rogue and I will be showering them with magic items just to see what happens.

Though in fairness to Mike Shea, what is overpowered is somewhat table dependent, I think. I have seen wildly different views on what is overpowered argued here. Mike, if memory serves, plays very theatre of the mind and may find things overpowered that may not be as much of an issue in a more tactical grid focused table. On the other had the tactical grid focused people may have issues that do not bother more theatre of the mind groups.
It occurs to me that fireballs seem more powerful some theatre of the mind games than in grid-based ones.