D&D 5E The curious case of the double-dragon sorcerer

[Fralex]

What if the damage bonus from Elemental Affinity also applied to a dragonborn's breath weapon? Then having a single bloodline would allow you to sacrifice a temporary defensive boost for a moderately-infrequently-used offensive boost.

 

[Fralex]

I never argued that one option is truly superior to the other; my initial position was treating both as roughly equal. But as you'll note my wording, I indirectly acknowledge that the double-dragon is still a bit of a disadvantage. I honestly fully expected someone to bring up that I never actually denied it being a disadvantage.

That might've settled things a while ago if you had just said it directly!

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

That might've settled things a while ago if you had just said it directly!

Which was a mistake on my part.

 

[Fralex]

One point of DR per sorcerer level seems about right. Thanks!

I dunno if that's enough to justify spending a whole sorcery point on. I'd already take half-damage from something; this doesn't seem like it would make my resistance that much stronger. What if instead of spending a sorcery point to get resistance to the bloodline's signature damage for an hour, it simply cuts that damage in half for an hour? Then it stacks with any other resistance you might have to that damage, without making it quite as strong as outright immunity (although small amounts of damage might become trivial when divided by 4, so that's nice).

 

[gyor]

It one feature, and is it really any worse then an Elf Ranger or Archer fighter already knowing how to use a longbow for example. And technicially while there is some redundacy in Double Dragon sorcerors, they's still technically better at those things then any other race of dragon sorceror. A double dragon sorc has better resistance (well cheaper and always on) resistance then say an Elf Dragon sorc or Gnome Dragon Sorc. And if something magically negates the Dragonborns natural resistance, but not any future gain resistance then the Double Dragon has a back up way. Not sure what could do that, maybe something in the future.

 

[I'm A Banana]

And only resisting fire is never, in absolutely no possible situation, better than resisting fire and optionally also lightning which makes it, always, less powerful.

Resist Fire = Resist Lightning = 1 sorcery point

Resist Fire = Careful Spell / Distant Spell / Empowered spell / Extended Spell / Subtle Spell / Twinned Cantrip = 1 Sorcery Point

Resist Fire + Resist Lighting > Resist Fire

Resist Fire + Resist Lightning = Resist Fire + careful spell or distant spell or empowered spell or extendend spell or subtle spell or twinned cantrip = resist fire + 1 sorcery point

So...

The mixed sorcerer has more option while the double sorcerer lacks half of a class feature.

...is untrue. The mixed sorcerer has the option to spend 1 sorcery point on a different kind of resistance if they need it. If they do that, they can't do other things with their points. They do it, and later in the day, they fry their ally with a fireball because they can't afford Careful Spell. The double-sorcerer does not have a resistance option, which means they also don't ever spend that sorcery point there. Instead, they get fried and get to use some other ability more often instead. So later, they avoid frying their ally because they can afford Careful Spell.

That in no way makes the double sorcerer weaker than the mixed sorcerer, especially given the niche usefulness of an extra resistance.

Another way to say that: that part of the Elemental Affinity feature doesn't actually increase the power of the sorcerer. It simply gives them more options. And a double-dragon-sorcerer will not have as many options.

But champions aren't weaker than battle masters or wizards or clerics because they don't have as many options. They simply have fewer options.

 

[Derren]

...is untrue.

Wrong.
A mixed sorcerer has the same option of using all points for offensive metamagic. Having an additional option you can take when needed is not a weakness.

Or to correct your calculation:
Resist Fire + Resist Lighting + Careful Spell / Distant Spell / Empowered spell / Extended Spell / Subtle Spell / Twinned Cantrip > Resist Fire + Careful Spell / Distant Spell / Empowered spell / Extended Spell / Subtle Spell / Twinned Cantrip

But champions aren't weaker than battle masters or wizards or clerics because they don't have as many options. They simply have fewer options.

Wrong example.
A better one would be two Battle Masters with identical statistics except one has only a single Maneuver while the other has the full 3 (or more depending on the level). According to your logic the one with the single maneuver is better or at least equal as he "does not waste superiority dice" on other things. And that simply does not make sense like it does not with the sorcerers. Having more tools at your disposal is a big advantage as it increases the chance that for any given situation you can chose to optimal tool to deal with it. Thats especially true when the increased number of tools does not come at any cost.

 

[Fralex]

...is untrue. The mixed sorcerer has the option to spend 1 sorcery point on a different kind of resistance if they need it. If they do that, they can't do other things with their points. They do it, and later in the day, they fry their ally with a fireball because they can't afford Careful Spell. The double-sorcerer does not have a resistance option, which means they also don't ever spend that sorcery point there. Instead, they get fried and get to use some other ability more often instead. So later, they avoid frying their ally because they can afford Careful Spell.

So the advantage to not having the option is removing the temptation of spending a point to activate it, because it might turn out to have been a poor decision later? That's sort of a weak justification. I mean, I guess technically that's a sort of benefit, but it's not like every time I use the resistance ability I'll regret spending the point later. I'd rather give myself the possibility of making a good choice than remove the choice entirely in case I use it wrong.

 

[PnPgamer]

On a sidenote, careful spell sucks on save for half spells. Be an evocationist wizard instead for better benefit.

 

[I'm A Banana]

So the advantage to not having the option is removing the temptation of spending a point to activate it, because it might turn out to have been a poor decision later? That's sort of a weak justification. I mean, I guess technically that's a sort of benefit, but it's not like every time I use the resistance ability I'll regret spending the point later. I'd rather give myself the possibility of making a good choice than remove the choice entirely in case I use it wrong.

It is fewer options. It is not, however, less power, which is my main point. The damage output and HP totals and other numerical systems don't get a boost from being able to spend 1 sorcery point to get an additional resistance. Simply having fewer options is not necessarily a balance problem, or else the champion would be the weakest class in the game. 5e balanced on this paradigm would look like 4e with everyone having precisely the same resource management scheme and quantity of action-activated abilities so as to maintain strict option balance. Being able to negate 5 lightning damage because you have the option to is not more powerful than avoiding dealing 5 fire damage to your ally because you have the option to instead.

A mixed sorcerer has the same option of using all points for offensive metamagic. Having an additional option you can take when needed is not a weakness.

What I'm saying is that it's not an increase in power. It's just an option. Additional options are additional options, not more power. Yes, a doubled-up dragon sorcerer has fewer options. This doesn't decrease their power in any way.