D&D General The DM Shortage

[overgeeked]

Maybe you’re older than I am. My first set of rules was the D&D cyclopedia. I remember it being long and a bit of a slog. The fact this was pre-internet access meant I was pretty much on my own.

The 5e PHB doesn’t seem measurably harder. My youngest started younger than I did (at 8) and he is doing fine.

And do you think those bolded bits had any effect on that? Starting out on your own vs the child of a long-time gamer likely had a huge influence on how things played out.

 

[Zardnaar]

So your argument, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the rules were so bad nobody tried to use them? That's better somehow? Am I the only one who remembers the various charts of what weapon did what damage against specific armors, or certain weapons did more damage to large creatures or ... well the list goes on.

Just because the rules were such a mess that you couldn't follow them didn't make the game easier to run IMHO. It just meant that you kind of made it up as you went along. We also tended to do more dungeon crawls, the list of classes and races was significantly smaller (all depending on exact edition and options).

If you want to keep things simple, just use the basic rules. No feats, no multiclassing, limit classes. Do dungeon crawls where you run around kicking in doors. At that point you have something similar to older versions of D&D and yes, it's similar difficulty IMHO because if you care enough to actually use the rules they make sense. In my experience, I've encountered fewer rules lawyers in 5E than I did for at least the previous two editions, and probably back to AD&D. If anyone ever questioned anything at the table in 5E the DM just made a decision (which occasionally meant looking up a rule, because that's actually possible in 5E) and we moved on. Lawyers, including rules lawyers, will always be with us.

YMMV of course, but that's kind of been my point. We'd have to find someone that picked up the book at a game store and started playing with minimal guidance like we did back in the day to answer these questions to know. Without that we just don't know. All we do know is that the game sells well and that, like all things, the DMG in particular could be better.

The rules are a psin a lot get ignored.

BzuT can confirm AD&D runs faster/easier than 5E.

B/,X that's pretty much beyond dispiute.

BUT pt2 could also depend on how you're running AD&D. If you're running it like Advanced B/X it's quite easy if you're using lots of optional rules it leans more towards modern levels of complexity.

So ymmv can vary depending on what rules get used/ignored.

I've played the older D&D's and 5E in the 5E era so it's not nostalgia.

 

[Maxperson]

Well, that doesn't mean anything. We have an overabundance of DMs with the established groups in our school's D&D Club - one group is currently running three simultaneous campaigns, taking turns, because it has three DMs, with two more waiting in the wings. I could just as easily run a thread called "The DM Overabundance" if anecdotal evidence is all we are going with. The only hard number we have, from WotC, suggests there is not a DM shortage.

Unless we are talking locally. Strategies for finding a DM in your local area, that kind of thing. I could use two more players in my group, as two of my regulars just made a baby and are going to be playing irregularly at best.

The thing that creates the most difficulty in my opinion is not being able to find a DM or not, but rather finding a compatible DM or not. We all have preferences and the DM or two in your local area(assuming not in a major city) might run a style of game that you don't enjoy.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well, that doesn't mean anything. We have an overabundance of DMs with the established groups in our school's D&D Club - one group is currently running three simultaneous campaigns, taking turns, because it has three DMs, with two more waiting in the wings. I could just as easily run a thread called "The DM Overabundance" if anecdotal evidence is all we are going with. The only hard number we have, from WotC, suggests there is not a DM shortage.

Unless we are talking locally. Strategies for finding a DM in your local area, that kind of thing. I could use two more players in my group, as two of my regulars just made a baby and are going to be playing irregularly at best.

Comes from various articles and online games and rise of professional DMs or paying to DM.

I've seen ads for example of groups looking for replacement DMs and offering to pay.

Before Covid killed the Wednesday night game we had one group with 9 players and I curated the players and limited the group size to 5 players. Would be willing to go to 6 with the right person eg returning player I like.


Right now I've got 4 players and have been told not to look for more but we're open to organically aquiring a +1 (we're not advertising). One of those 4 was a returning player I've personally known for 18 years.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Some GMs will feel more comfortable with things spelled out. Some will feel comfortable with more space in the rules. Some GMs will want something things codified and other things not.

I never found 3e or its descendants all that hard to run because it was over-codified. That doesn't mean I never had problems of course.

It could be that I am 20 years older and more relaxed now. Hard to say. It just felt fiddly—-adding little tidbits here and there.

Maybe I would not feel that way now. Heck I have the book and even the character generator on the disk. Guess I could have another look.

I will say the space in 5e would have been less welcome without a lot of online advice. It’s a happy balance for me and my style.

Of course we had fun playing becmi with my kids a year ago and it was detail light!

 

[pointofyou]

It could be that I am 20 years older and more relaxed now. Hard to say. It just felt fiddly—-adding little tidbits here and there.

Maybe I would not feel that way now. Heck I have the book and even the character generator on the disk. Guess I could have another look.

I will say the space in 5e would have been less welcome without a lot of online advice. It’s a happy balance for me and my style.

Of course we had fun playing becmi with my kids a year ago and it was detail light!

Different people will of course have different experiences and different preferences. I played a fair amount of 1e but ran very little of it. I run 5e very much inline with how I remember those games of 1e. I don't think either the 1e games I remember or the 5e games I run could be described accurately or fairly as "typical."

 

[FrozenNorth]

And do you think those bolded bits had any effect on that? Starting out on your own vs the child of a long-time gamer likely had a huge influence on how things played out.

Burden’s on you to show Cyclopedia was easier than 5e PHB.

The fact that an 8-year old can do it (even if they are the son of a long time gamer) means that it is a steep burden to meet.

 

[Zardnaar]

Burden’s on you to show Cyclopedia was easier than 5e PHB.

The fact that an 8-year old can do it (even if they are the son of a long time gamer) means that it is a steep burden to meet.

Plenty of 8 years olds learnt on B/X as well it's an anecdote.

B/X is objectively easier to run what you prefer is subjective.

AD&D is alot more subjective.

Hell you can look at pagecount around 1000 for 5E core books around 100 for basic or 300 for BECMI Rules cyclopedia.

There's just less of it ergo easier. Less options as well. What you prefer is up to you.

Easiest D&D to run is the clones with ascending AC but I haven't tested out new clones like OSE more things like Basic Fantasy or Castles and Crusades.

 

[overgeeked]

Burden’s on you to show Cyclopedia was easier than 5e PHB.

The fact that an 8-year old can do it (even if they are the son of a long time gamer) means that it is a steep burden to meet.

So you're making the assertion that being the son of a long-time gamer had no effect on your son's ability to pick up 5E...and it's my burden to prove that for you? That's not how this works. Burden of proof is on whoever's making the assertion, which, in this case, is you.

 

[Zardnaar]

So you're making the assertion that being the son of a long-time gamer had no effect on your son's ability to pick up 5E...and it's my burden to prove that for you? That's not how this works. Burden of proof is on whoever's making the assertion, which, in this case, is you.

Learning via an established player is the time honored tradition.

We learnt the hard way no mentors. Well I kinda did (1 years experience playing under DM) but he didn't mentor me as such just played in his game.