D&D General The DM Shortage

[Mort]

Fantasy setting does not equal "nothing matters, so anything goes". IMO, fantasy settings work best when the fantastic stuff is a specific exception, and the rest of the world operates more or less like ours. That grounding helps the fantastic "pop", so that the world is comprehensible.

Mummy rot as a magical disease works fine as a specific exception, IMO.

It's not anything goes. It's a recognition of the fact that the fantasy world does not have to conform to our world realism.

Magical herbs, if you don't want them in your fantasy world, ok. But to say they are not there because they're not realistic is preposterous.

Frankly if the world doesn't provide SOME evidence of it itself being fantastic (rather than just that guy there can pop a magic missile), that becomes boring for me. I mean, I can play a historical GURPS setting if I want my non fantasy fix.

 

[Vaalingrade]

A fantasy world can't have fantasy magic, silly.

The only fantasy allowed must come from PC-available caster classes specifically.

In fact, get these dragons out of here unless there's a Wizard spell that makes dragons.

 

[Mort]

Fantasy setting does not equal "nothing matters, so anything goes". IMO, fantasy settings work best when the fantastic stuff is a specific exception, and the rest of the world operates more or less like ours. That grounding helps the fantastic "pop", so that the world is comprehensible.

Mummy rot as a magical disease works fine as a specific exception, IMO.

Further, magic as the go to, most expedient, solution for 90% of problems gets old fast (at least for me). It actually takes away from the fantasy (again, for me) if every problem is essentially solved by "find the magic button..."

 

[overgeeked]

Bring back the five minute work day!!!

No. Stop fighting it and have five minute epic fights…and as many as you and the players want in a given day.

 

[tetrasodium]

Further, magic as the go to, most expedient, solution for 90% of problems gets old fast (at least for me). It actually takes away from the fantasy (again, for me) if every problem is essentially solved by "find the magic button..."

I feel like to some degree this is caused by the extreme & relatively exclusive focus on FR in the core books causes this. FR's gratuitous plotarmor levels of "magic does it" If there were more of a shared focus then settings like eberron with their magewrights or darksun where things lean more towards "yea it just sucks for you..." would provide alternatives for the venn diagram of solutions to cover.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Further, magic as the go to, most expedient, solution for 90% of problems gets old fast (at least for me). It actually takes away from the fantasy (again, for me) if every problem is essentially solved by "find the magic button..."

Mummy rot is not every problem, it is a problem. You take these things on a case by case basis. I have no issue with many things being solvable by mundane means; would prefer it generally, again because the world feels more real that way. But some magic problems needing magic fixes should be fine.

 

[Mort]

Mummy rot is not every problem, it is a problem. You take these things on a case by case basis. I have no issue with many things being solvable by mundane means; would prefer it generally, again because the world feels more real that way. But some magic problems needing magic fixes should be fine.

I actually get what you're saying, sure.

But, if the world has magic or is magic? Shouldn't there be magic herbs that could solve the problem? Could even be the basis for an adventure. You ARE solving the problem with magic, just not with the typical spell or PC ability.

Frankly, that's no different (and I, personally, find it more thematic) than forcing the group (assuming they don't have access to the spells by themselves) to track down a scroll, wand or NPC spellcaster.

 

[jasper]

Procrustean will help with the DM shortage. Just check into his services. He will only charge you a leg to get ahead in the DM game.

 

[Oofta]

When it comes to magic in the world, I think it's best left up to the DM, group and campaign. Some campaigns are going to have minimal magic where wizards are as rare as hen's teeth and others that have even more magic than Eberron.

In my campaign world, magic does infuse the world and there are healers that can cure many diseases and help people heal more quickly. But there may also be rare herbs that can only be found in the misty forest that's haunted by a banshee and the PCs need to retrieve it to stop a disease that's ravaging the town. In other cases you have magical diseases like mummy rot which is more of a curse than a disease which requires magic. That and NPCs may devote their lives to healing while I view training in medicine to be more akin to having advanced knowledge of first aid and combat emergency medicine. While we don't have NPC classes any more, NPCs specialists can frequently do things the PCs can't in my games. Those specialists simply don't use the same rules as PCs because they aren't adventurers.

I don't think having magical herbs that can help people heal and magically curing disease are mutually exclusive.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

A Medicine check can't even be used to heal someone with Healer's Tools, you need the Healer feat for that, and it ironically doesn't use the medicine skill at all, it just happens.

 

[James Gasik]

I actually get what you're saying, sure.

But, if the world has magic or is magic? Shouldn't there be magic herbs that could solve the problem? Could even be the basis for an adventure. You ARE solving the problem with magic, just not with the typical spell or PC ability.

Frankly, that's no different (and I, personally, find it more thematic) than forcing the group (assuming they don't have access to the spells by themselves) to track down a scroll, wand or NPC spellcaster.

Some months ago, I was debating with another poster about how the system requires magic to solve certain problems. I brought up petrification- you get turned to stone, chances are the only thing that can help you is Greater Restoration. They were like, "or the DM could allow the blood of the creature to cure the petrification, or some other means that doesn't involve spells".

Which is true, though by default, the game says "spells only". You have to add in these things, and I'm not sure why, since it wasn't always like this.

In our world, there's a lot of myths and beliefs about the mystical properties of herbs and gems (Gary has a list of these in the 1e DMG, as it happens). People believed that dunking an amethyst into a drink would remove poison from it.

In a fantasy world, there's no reason that can't actually work. The body parts of magical beasts can contain magic that can be harnessed without spells (there was a time when the Monster Manual would call some of these things out, like how "possession of a unicorn horn is a sovereign remedy to poison). Ed Greenwood published quite a bit of information about the properties of herbs in the Forgotten Realms, including some that only exist there, like Trueroot, a universal poison cure. We've had many pages over the years to discussing the mystical properties of various metals and minerals; heck, the Underdark is suffused with radiation that over time grants the races that live there magical powers!

Magical energy can gather in places or creatures. The mere presence of a dragon in an area over time can cause the land to become tainted by it's essence, warping and changing the flora and fauna.

An alchemist could use nothing but knowledge to combine these materials to create "magical" effects without any actual spells involved. But the only thing the game really allows for is the creation of healing potions, for whatever reason.

 

[billd91]

Some months ago, I was debating with another poster about how the system requires magic to solve certain problems. I brought up petrification- you get turned to stone, chances are the only thing that can help you is Greater Restoration. They were like, "or the DM could allow the blood of the creature to cure the petrification, or some other means that doesn't involve spells".

That was the approach taken by Paizo when they retooled monsters to make them better fits to the CR system. The CR 3 cockatrice slowly fossilizes and offers multiple attempts to recover. The CR 5 basilisk may turn unlucky PCs to stone quickly, but his blood unpetrifies anyone bathed in it. And it isn't until the CR 7 and iconic medusa that we get the classic petrification. Until you get to the medusa, the PCs have a number of chances to undo a petrification without resorting to magical powers well above their likely level. I found it a welcome change.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Some months ago, I was debating with another poster about how the system requires magic to solve certain problems. I brought up petrification- you get turned to stone, chances are the only thing that can help you is Greater Restoration. They were like, "or the DM could allow the blood of the creature to cure the petrification, or some other means that doesn't involve spells".

Which is true, though by default, the game says "spells only". You have to add in these things, and I'm not sure why, since it wasn't always like this.

In our world, there's a lot of myths and beliefs about the mystical properties of herbs and gems (Gary has a list of these in the 1e DMG, as it happens). People believed that dunking an amethyst into a drink would remove poison from it.

In a fantasy world, there's no reason that can't actually work. The body parts of magical beasts can contain magic that can be harnessed without spells (there was a time when the Monster Manual would call some of these things out, like how "possession of a unicorn horn is a sovereign remedy to poison). Ed Greenwood published quite a bit of information about the properties of herbs in the Forgotten Realms, including some that only exist there, like Trueroot, a universal poison cure. We've had many pages over the years to discussing the mystical properties of various metals and minerals; heck, the Underdark is suffused with radiation that over time grants the races that live there magical powers!

Magical energy can gather in places or creatures. The mere presence of a dragon in an area over time can cause the land to become tainted by it's essence, warping and changing the flora and fauna.

An alchemist could use nothing but knowledge to combine these materials to create "magical" effects without any actual spells involved. But the only thing the game really allows for is the creation of healing potions, for whatever reason.

The reason the current game doesn't spell this stuff out is that they were and are determined to force the game into as simple a box as possible, to keep bringing in more sources of income (new players). That's all it is, and we've seen nothing to expect they'll be any different in 2024 with the new edition.

You have to go beyond WotC to find these things. Fortunately, there's a lot out there.

 

[Vaalingrade]

No. Stop fighting it and have five minute epic fights…and as many as you and the players want in a given day.

Good. Good. Let the encounter-based design flow through you.

 

[pemerton]

you need to look at the "realism" of the fantasy world. In Greyhawk for example: Gods exist, magic permeates the environment, mummy rot is likely a recognized condition, has been studied, etc.

I don't know if you saw my thread on this last year: D&D General - What's the DC for a fighter to heal their ally with a prayer?

 

[Mort]

I don't know if you saw my thread on this last year: D&D General - What's the DC for a fighter to heal their ally with a prayer?

Yeah, I remember being saddened by how many people were completely closed to even the concept

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I have done what I can to stop the DM shortage. I have many times run short term games to help get groups up and running, then passed off to one of them. I even ran intro games at stores and cons and exchanged emails and face books with people who were going to try to DM.

Not all of them stayed in touch. Not all of the ones that stayed in touch stayed playing and/or DMing. However The longer I am on enworld the longer I wonder if doing that has helped at all.

 

[James Gasik]

Yeah, I remember being saddened by how many people were completely closed to even the concept

I kind of blame this on WotC. In the 1e DMG, Gary is potentially open to the idea, and puts forward some rules on divine intervention on pages 111-112, with a base chance of 10%.

5e, on the other hand, makes divine intervention strictly a class feature of the Cleric class- not even other divine casters, like Druids or Paladins, can attempt to invoke the intercession of the divine, so why should a normal person be allowed a chance to do so?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah, I remember being saddened by how many people were completely closed to even the concept

The greatest enemy to the advancement of D&D is D&D's fans.

 

[Clint_L]

Yeah, I remember being saddened by how many people were completely closed to even the concept

House rule it and try it. Who cares what other people think? Maybe you'll love it. If it's a good idea, it'll catch on.

My initial reservation is that it potentially creates an issue where every time they run into serious trouble, players start having their characters pray to the gods. It could get silly very quickly.