False. +-10 is a pretty huge swing. What happens in 3e beyond level 5 or so is that there are effectively two levels of skill. Trained well and don't bother. The 1/2 level thing doesn't make skills matter less. It means that skills remain relevant rather than a binary switch.
Maybe you are right. (IMO, even if some class has too few, you customize better with skill points but whatever).
Only if by Multiclass you mean massively so rather than picking up some skills along the way. In which case you want Hybrid rather than Multiclass.
For multiclass I mean the freedom of build a fighter dipping rogue, vice versa, or a 50:50 fighter/rogue. Puggins indeed raised a good point (see below).
Yes. You don't have to pay for spellcasting in 3e. You do for big spells in 4e. Huge difference.
Well, another generaization here. Sometimes you have to pay for spellcasting in 3.5 and Pathfinder, too. But my point was that each day thay utility for the Ranger would change, raising in number at higher level and increasinglt hugely the flexibility.
It depends where you add diversity whether it's a problem. Adding options that can be chosen for a character is good. Adding options that get added to a character without meaningful penalty is power creep, pure and simple.
Once you open a splatbook, you are not forced to add everything it contains to your campaing. One could even ban core spells, and switch them with non core ones. In that case the splat saves you.. or just allows you to built a different world.
Yes. The Batman Wizard makes the rogue irrelevant and means that all most other people need to do is a mopping up operation. That's damn well played. It also breaks the game. The two are not opposites. The making the other PCs irrelevant is precisely because the Batman Wizard is played so well.
No. The true Batman makes everyone great. if this can be degenerated, I concede. but the fact that several spells in 3.5 needed reworkind, does not mean that I cannot make a spellbook mechanic intersting and flavourful. See, in AD&D IIRC there was a rule about known spells and int score (the wiz int score put a limit). That was a limitation like in 4th, but didn't seem the same way arbitrary.
The bit about the L20 Sorceror with 23 ranks in Knowledge(Arcana)? It's what you wrote. And given the ties to power sources in 4e, claiming this as a 3e fluff advantage is silly.
That started as an example of diversity (how they cast spell and this mechanics make them differen from Wizard and is reflected in monsters).. I don't follow you anymore here
THEY ARE IN 4E. Components, cost, time to cast. It's called Ritual Casting. And the components there actually matter. As does the skill you use to cast them (and not just whether you can maintain your concentration).
The only time when spellcasting you don't need components and time is for specialised combat magic (OK, Bards and Invokers have no cost for a couple of rituals per day.) Combat magic needs to happen under pressure. The rest of the time the magic is more the way you claim to want it than 3e is.
Components didn't matter before? And the fact that there is not recognizable analogy between rituals and combat magic (combat magic is more similar to the fighter swinging a sword) increases the disconnect for someone.
I want to remind you that our discussion started from this - I was wondering about what make people feel the sameness starting from what I miss from previous edition.. my observations started from the essentials and their "look back" style.. or at least attempt.
Rogues shouldn't be boring in 3e. Or any edition. They excel out of combat. It's the poor fighter in 3e that's tedious at low levels.
I was just joking about the fact that some people (not you, reading the sentence above) finds the rogue very boring in 3rd edition, while two same maneuver (move tumbling and stab) has been merged in one, given a fancy name and WHAM! is suddenly cool.
Again, we played the Fighter class very differently, I'm sure of it. For sure could have been done far better (how feats scale, dead levels), but nevertheless...
(Unless you are talking about class skills amd skill points.. in this case you are right
)
You assume 4e has no feats.
Feats in 4th are less a class feature for fighter (barring Essentials
). The real maneuvers fighter performs are in the powers. Am I wrong?
Where optimum = forced min-maxing? With feat chains, your feats cease to be so many choices because it's best to run the chains.
So. That's dodge, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind attack, Improved Shield defence, two weapon fighting, shield bash? 8 feats to get an attack mode they do every time? This isn't options you're looking for. It's replacements.
I meant the capstone feat. My bad. And I'm pretty sure that they are even more(out shield defence, add shield slam, power attack, improved bull rush, and maybe improved trip) but is not the point.
But the point is here: the fighter will push people from level 1 with power attack and improved bull rush. And don't start with the argumentation that tide of iron deals dmage - 1st level enemies in 3rd have not the same HP than in 4th, you will bash their skull the round later,
for now.
The point is that the way the fighter will play will change dramatically each feat he takes. And the weapon used. The whirliwind above will be very different if using a shield and bull rushes, or a glaive and trip. The glaive itself will switch from control to damage basing on power attack.
And the feats you took to reach this point have a great versatility, too (you can use improved trip with the glaive above, but with the bolas too).
Now, I concede that some feat was lame and remains that way (mobility)
Have you even read the PHB2? Or know a thing about 4e Sorcerors? There are currently four power sources for sorcerors (Dragon, Cosmic, Chaos, Storm). Each has its own pattern of bonusses and resistances (with resistance being to one of the types that matches a breath type) - and has certain powers with riders if it has that power source. Invokers can directly commune (if weakly) with their God (Hand of Fate free 1/day). And that's before getting into Wrath, Protection, and Malediction aspects and the backlash for malediction.
The PHB 1 classes are the simplest and often blandest (Warlocks are an exception, granted). But if you're going to assume that's all that exists in 4e, I'm going to take you back to 3.0 core. Except with exception based design it's easier to add things to 4e without breaking the game.
Point being that breaking the game is the least of my concerns. I prefer diversity. But I will take a look, because I trust your knowledge of the game.
For sure, make the fisrt core so bland has not been a smart move by WotC part..
And if you want the obscure stuff, you take ritual casting as a feat.
and spend 10 minutes to cast a silence!
Say 99%. At least. All it does is say "The cleric must be nailed down for 1 hour/day along with the wizard".
Different gamestyles: Not surprised we look at the game with different eyes..
Well, let see what these essentials will do for me or you
