The fireball spell through the editions

[Imp]

Yup. Fireballs in 3e are wussier. I do like the idea of some area-effect spells having the potential to backfire, and I've always played with ricocheting lightning bolts, but the less-deadly 3e fireball backlash has a way of making the complicated volume calculations a lot less compelling. I always just abstracted it out to horizontal area of effect, anyway.

 

[Glyfair]

Yup. Fireballs in 3e are wussier.

Yup. Takes away so much power from the arcane classes you almost might consider running a fighter at 5th level or higher

I do like the idea of some area-effect spells having the potential to backfire, and I've always played with ricocheting lightning bolts, but the less-deadly 3e fireball backlash has a way of making the complicated volume calculations a lot less compelling. I always just abstracted it out to horizontal area of effect, anyway.

I personally don't mind possible backlash considerations, as long as they are quick and easy to deal with. The earlier edition fireballs just weren't. Lightning Bolts were much easier, but every case I saw that the repercussions were dealt with, it was to make a 3rd level spell as powerful as a 4th or 5th level spell (if I bounce it here I can hit the BBEG twice, and all of his minions except for this guy, so deal with him).

 

[TheNovaLord]

the are very weak now

they do the same damage, but charcaters ahve a lot more hp nowanadays cf to OD&D and AD&D

clerics only had d6 in OD&D and thieves D4, and clerics had way fewer spells to protect themselves, though u did a CON hp bonus for a 13 stat

in AD&D evrybody is upped a hit dice type, but con bonuses are harder to ger

I also 'feel' it is easier to save against it now, than previous, though various feats can make it more

JohnD

 

[Sarellion]

I think it is good that the expanding volume went away. Especially when you don´t make detailed plans for the area.

 

[Plane Sailing]

t
they do the same damage, but charcaters ahve a lot more hp nowanadays cf to OD&D and AD&D

clerics only had d6 in OD&D and thieves D4, and clerics had way fewer spells to protect themselves, though u did a CON hp bonus for a 13 stat

I agree with your basic point, but ought to note that thieves didn't come into OD&D until Greyhawk (supplement 1) and they arrived with d6 hd, mirroring clerics.

Of course, in those days clerics didn't even get their FIRST spell until they had accumulated 1500xps, and each orc was only worth, what, 25xp?

Kids TODAY think they have it tough

 

[Glyfair]

Of course, in those days clerics didn't even get their FIRST spell until they had accumulated 1500xps, and each orc was only worth, what, 25xp?

Kids TODAY think they have it tough

Yeah, but you used to get experience for treasure as well. A 1st level character who stumbled on a chest of gold could get it home and gain a level!

 

[Henrix]

One side note--I think the idea of capping hte damage of fire ball and similar spells to a certain number of d6s was first introduced in (IIRC) the Companion Rules set. There the limit was 20d6. 3e tones it down to 10d6.

Don't blame everything on 3e. The quotes above show that the 10d6 damage cap is from 2e.


But in 3e fireball has certainly become less overpowered, obligatory and faster to handle.

 

[Henry]

Yes, 3E opted for spells that promoted speedier play, and it's really about where you want your slowness. In 3E, the slowness is more around rules lookups than around specific effects themselves, and tends to decrease with more rules proficiency. In AD&D, the rules were for the most part fewer, but the slowness came around the DM making sure his ruling was fair where the rules weren't covered.

Still doesn't take away the fact that we used to have a lot of fun figuring out whether you were crisped by your own fireball or not.

I will say that most magic-users I knew or played took the space into consideration when planning fireball usage. If they were in cramped quarters, they'd throw their fireballs further out beyond the enemy, to accomodate the expanded area. If space didn't permit, they'd either retreat to more open areas, or pick different spells (flame arrow, or web, or stinking cloud, or magic missile, or lightning bolt, cone of cold if higher level, etc.)

 

[Scribble]

I will say that most magic-users I knew or played took the space into consideration when planning fireball usage. If they were in cramped quarters, they'd throw their fireballs further out beyond the enemy, to accomodate the expanded area. If space didn't permit, they'd either retreat to more open areas, or pick different spells (flame arrow, or web, or stinking cloud, or magic missile, or lightning bolt, cone of cold if higher level, etc.)

Yeah... I'll agree with this... Most players I knew would sit and figure out how much room they had and if it would crisp them or not before they shot it off so it didn't really come in to play much unless you screwed up... Or the DM ruled no measuring before casting... Which brought the argument "But as a crazy intelligent Mage I should know what my spells will do... blah blah..."

New spell makes things faster, but I will admit does remove the "haha stupid wizard." aspect.

As for the damage cap... I think it's a good thing overall. It is a Game, and I'm guessing the damage caps keep the wizard from turning into the end all be all class after gaining 3rd level spells.

It's still a good way to deal a good hit of damage to lots of people at once. (which not a lot of classes can do...)

 

[woodelf]

I just loved sitting down for an evening of fun and having then having to perform mathematics to determine how much area was effect by a common spell. Oh, yes, and as a DM having to pull out your map and methodically work out exactly which areas were effected by the fireball spell. I thought people were arguing that earlier editions of D&D were faster in combat

It's a non-issue in a typical all-squares dungeon. The only time we ever had to do any real figuring was outdoors. Quick: what's the radius of a fireball with a target origin 5' above the ground, on an open plane, if its volume is equivalent to a 20'-radius sphere? That one gave us a bit of a headache. Spherical volume? Easy. Hemispherical volume? Easy. Arbitrary portion of a sphere? Pain in the butt.

We almost never used a battle map--just relied on verbal positioning for most wilderness stuff. But this one came up when the PCs wanted to blow up some people who had just ambushed them with a net trap, and were standing quite close. So in order to get the most opponents, the player specified a target point 25' from the closest-to-the-blast-point PC, and 5' off the ground, completely forgetting the truncating effect of the ground itself. (The 5' off the ground part was because they wanted the maximal cross-sectional diameter at around chest level, rather than ground level, to be sure and catch as many opponents as possible. We used math, not grids, so things didn't get rounded to the nearest 5' increment, and thus every foot counted.)