log in or register to remove this ad

 

The Greatest TV Shows of All Time (Kinda): The Top 10

Stalker0

Legend
Despite not sticking the landing during its final season, Game of Thrones was fantastic television for a very long time. Indeed as soon as they ran out of books, it all went down hill. But that was after about 5 fantastic seasons.
While I agree that the show declines noticeable in seasons 6 and 7.... it was still solid TV. It wasn't incredible like it was...but still solid.

I think what really kills GoT for me is how incredibly rushed the final season (number 8) was....and it did not have to be. This is not your classic "we are getting cancelled got to wrap this up". HBO is literally going "please showrunners, make more, we will give you money...you like money right....have some money". They had every green light to make a longer season, or hell 2 or 3 more seasons if they wanted.

But the showrunners said no they could do it in just a handful of episodes....and they were so rushed it felt like absolute hot garbage. Now I can respect that the guys were tired, or maybe wanted to do something else, or had a new opportunity, etc....these things happen. But you turn the reigns over to someone else, wish them good luck, and let the project continue...you don't just kill it so you can be over and done with it.

GoT is such a travesty for that reason. It rose so high, and fell incredibly far in that last season. Season 7 had its bad moments believe me....but it was still really enjoyable. Season 8 is watching your favorite toy get thrown into a garbage fire.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Regarding Game of Thrones, what bothered me the most, is the character assassination of Daenerys in the last season, and in general how all characters end their journey. Emilia Clarke seemed so sad and depressed in interviews. She loved playing that character and she deserved better.

The ending for the Hound felt unfulfilling. The ending for Jamie and Cersei did not seem in line with where the books were heading, nor what GRRM intended. And that entire final battle that was way too dark to see what was going on, seemed like a massive post production blunder.

How do you finish work on an episode, look at it, realize that everyone's work is impossible to make out, and then decide that your work here is done? What the hell happened there? Days of stunt work, night shoots for cast and crew (which is no picknick), so much work for the make up and costume department... Not to mention months of hard work by CG artists, and then you make all their work invisible by incorrectly balancing the brightness in post production!

And sure, the Starbucks cup meme was funny for a while, even though they embarassed some of their actors by blaming it on them. But it really wasn't their fault. Actors have coffee in between scenes, there is nothing wrong with that. It is not their responsibility to make sure those cups aren't on screen once shooting resumes. It is indicative that someone in charge wasn't paying any attention during the final season.

And let me just put it out there that maybe several consequetive days of night shoots in the cold are not okay to put your actors through. The showrunners all have a big laugh about it in their "making of the episode", but it wrecks the actors. As cool as that Hard Home episode was, is it worth mistreating your cast and crew for?

In fact, that seems like a running theme with all their making ofs. "Yeah, we put Kit Harrington through hell for several days on end, and he was freezing his nuts off, but he just has to do it cause we said so. Ha ha! Hilarious! Smile to the camera Kit!"
 
Last edited:

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
...and do you not get why I wrote that? I mean, sure, as an American and an English-speaking person, I could write a top 10 list without any criteria that would have been heavily slanted toward American shows (and to a lesser extent, British shows). But that would have been, IMO, much more obnoxious than explicitly excluding them. A lack of self-knowledge is what leads people to say that they are listing the best of something, and then only putting in their own culture's examples. "I'm an American, and English is my first language. so let's just assume that all those shows with the pesky subtitles... or that haven't even been subtitled ... don't exist."

But to be explicit- I think it is usually much worse for someone to implicitly claim that they are evaluating all the world's TV when they have limited experience with the best programs from other countries.

And yes- the whole point of that explanation (explicitly referencing British programs with the BBC and foreign language programs with Borgen) was to avoid this kind of unthinking pushback. Again, why bother?
You’re clearly upset, which was not my intention. I’m sorry; I misjudged the situation. I’ll leave you to your threads. Enjoy!
 

payn

Hero
Regarding Game of Thrones, what bothered me the most, is the character assassination of Daenerys in the last season, and in general how all characters end their journey. Emilia Clarke seemed so sad and depressed in interviews. She loved playing that character and she deserved better.

The ending for the Hound felt unfulfilling. The ending for Jamie and Cersei did not seem in line with where the books were heading, nor what GRRM intended. And that entire final battle that was way too dark to see what was going on, seemed like a massive post production blunder.

How do you finish work on an episode, look at it, realize that everyone's work is impossible to make out, and then decide that your work here is done? What the hell happened there? Days of stunt work, night shoots for cast and crew (which is no picknick), so much work for the make up and costume department... Not to mention months of hard work by CG artists, and then you make all their work invisible by incorrectly balancing the brightness in post production!

And sure, the Starbucks cup meme was funny for a while, even though they embarassed some of their actors by blaming it on them. But it really wasn't their fault. Actors have coffee in between scenes, there is nothing wrong with that. It is not their responsibility to make sure those cups aren't on screen once shooting resumes. It is indicative that someone in charge wasn't paying any attention during the final season.

And let me just put it out there that maybe several consequetive days of night shoots in the cold are not okay to put your actors through. The showrunners all have a big laugh about it in their "making of the episode", but it wrecks the actors. As cool as that Hard Home episode was, is it worth mistreating your cast and crew for?

In fact, that seems like a running theme with all their making ofs. "Yeah, we put Kit Harrington through hell for several days on end, and he was freezing his nuts off, but he just has to do it cause we said so. Ha ha! Hilarious! Smile to the camera Kit!"
I didnt mind Daenerys taking a turn, she does have mad king blood in her. I just hated that developed over half an episode. I just had to say that I dont want to get started on how much better GoT could have been on the back half.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I didnt mind Daenerys taking a turn, she does have mad king blood in her. I just hated that developed over half an episode. I just had to say that I dont want to get started on how much better GoT could have been on the back half.

I don't find the last season+ of GOT as terrible as everyone else; I just don't think it is quite as good as what came before. The primary problem isn't necessarily the way that the character arcs ended, it's the way that they got there. Daenerys, as you astutely point out- that made perfect sense, but the "heel turn" happened way too quickly and just wasn't properly supported.

The amazing thing about the earlier parts of GOT is that, for the most part, it was allowed to breathe. But after moving from the books, and especially in the last season, it became rushed. Given that we know that they were offered more shows to finish GOT and turn the offer down, part of me thinks that the showrunners were just burnt- it was a massive production, and keeping up that sustained level must have been exhausting.

To me, the problems they were having with distance and travel (during the last season, people just magically appeared were they needed to, despite the geographic distances) were a metaphor for the change- it went from being an incredibly realistic show (but, you know, with dragons and stuff) with intricate plots and character development to ... well, a high budget "good" show that failed to live up the lofty standards that it had set, which made it look that much worse in comparison.
 

I didnt mind Daenerys taking a turn, she does have mad king blood in her. I just hated that developed over half an episode.

Oh, absolutely. It could have worked, if they had been patient with that plot line. Instead, they did her dirty. They suddenly changed her from a kind character, to a monster. It must have been horrible for Emilia to see her favourite character be treated that way.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
This is hard using that criteria.

In no particular order.

Breaking Bad
The Wire
Sopranos

Just watched all of the Sopranos recently, back in the day just watched the first few. I really like Justified as well.

I would include Simpsons but not allowed. Been watching season 6-17 recently. Very few if any dud episodes so far.

My secret guilt trip Survivor fight me. Been watching it for 20 years why stop now? Stargate Atlantis for one more.

Hmmmn Orange is the New Black I'll throw that one in. House of Cards was great but final season meh.

Breaking Bad
The Wire
Justified
Sopranos
Survivor
Stargate Atlantis
Orange is the New Black

Mindblank atm.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Oh, absolutely. It could have worked, if they had been patient with that plot line. Instead, they did her dirty. They suddenly changed her from a kind character, to a monster. It must have been horrible for Emilia to see her favourite character be treated that way.

Her turning wasn't a bad idea execution of it though.

I've seen better heel turns in WWE/WWF and Revenge of the Sith. When Vince McMahon can do it better than you can......
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Brief comments-

Mr. Robot and Legion are two of my favorite shows ever, but not necessarily top 10 (they were both honorable mention).

Homicide - Life on the Streets. So good. So very good. Not to mention the whole Richard Belzer TV Universe!

...but Sons of Anarchy? It had a severe Dexter problem (IMO). I absolutely loved the first few seasons, but it started to get ... bad. I watched the whole thing, and it never went "Full Lumberjack," but sometime around the Irish season it just lost a sense of direction.

The show declined but never fell off a cliff. Also had a decent ending.
 

Marc_C

Solo Role Playing
  • Joe 90
  • Captain Scarlett
  • Thunderbirds
  • UFO
  • Space 1999
  • Battlestar Galactica TOS
  • Buck Rodgers in the 25th Century
  • ARK II
  • V the series
  • The Greatest American Hero.
:p
 

Really hard to see Buffy/Angel belonging on this list. Too schlocky and too much filler (even if it's often well-done as far as that goes).
Strong disagreement on that. What you call filler, I call character-building.

This is actually one of my main beefs with the modern Trek shows (Discovery and Picard – I'll use Trek as an example because there isn't a modern version of Buffy): the crew are basically just extras. Since the seasons are so short and focused on the Big Story, there's no room to breathe and get to know anyone who isn't Burnham, Saru, Stamets, or the captain of the Season. Or maybe Tilly, a little. Discovery in particular has tried multiple times to make things "interesting" by doing something with another member of the bridge crew – Airam's sacrifice when corrupted by Control, Detmer needing to get her mojo back after crashing the Discovery when exiting the wormhole, and Owosekun being a badass retaking Discovery from the Emerald Chain. To me, all of these fell flat because I do not know these people. Compare this to Deep Space 9, where we get to know not only Sisko, Kira, and Dax, but also Bashir, Odo, Quark, Rom, Nog, Jake (OK, I could mostly do without Jake), Worf, Garak, O'Brien, Dukat, Damar, Winn. These are all interesting characters that we get to know and love/hate over the course of the series, precisely because of those "filler" episodes.

Modern short seasons work well when you only have one or at most a handful of important characters and the rest are literally there as supporting cast for the main characters. But they make for poor ensemble shows.

But the showrunners said no they could do it in just a handful of episodes....and they were so rushed it felt like absolute hot garbage. Now I can respect that the guys were tired, or maybe wanted to do something else, or had a new opportunity, etc....these things happen. But you turn the reigns over to someone else, wish them good luck, and let the project continue...you don't just kill it so you can be over and done with it.
My understanding was that Disney wanted D&D to do Star Wars, and they were all over that, and so they rushed to finish Game of Thrones. Of course, Game of Thrones season 8 ended in such a mess that Disney then told them "On second thought, no."
 

Ryujin

Hero
  • Joe 90
  • Captain Scarlett
  • Thunderbirds
  • UFO
  • Space 1999
  • Battlestar Galactica TOS
  • Buck Rodgers in the 25th Century
  • ARK II
  • V the series
  • The Greatest American Hero.
:p
I rewatched "UFO" a couple of years back and just finished watching "Captain Scarlet" again. That moment when you realize that Captain Blue is Jack Straker.... :ROFLMAO:
 

Since people are complaining about GoT, I guess this as good of a point as any to go off on this tangent.

I don't think Breaking Bad belongs on the list. After years of people raving about it, my wife and I started watching it during COVID. She gave up after season one, and I gave up after season two. It's just not that great of a show. People rave about the characters, but I honestly think the characters in Breaking Bad have basically the same depth as the cast of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and are just as likeable. Horrible people on the surface, mildly interesting quirks below that, but under that just more of the same horrible people you found on the top. Some of the acting is good, but not all of it. The plot is nowhere near as engaging or surprising as I was lead to believe. The cinematography wobbles between good, okay, and over-the-top pretentious. The writing and continuity are interesting, but not good enough to justify the lack of entertainment and enjoyment I got from watching it.

I'd rate Breaking Bad at about the same quality level as other well known dramas like, say, ER or Hill Street Blues. Good. Probably good enough at their peak to be "best of the year". But nowhere near "Greatest of All Time" material.

Oh, and I do think that the comparison's between Breaking Bad and IASIP can go much further. They're basically drama/comedy counterparts to each other.
 


I dont know about that though.

I'm going to be lazy and copy/paste from Wikipedia.

This is the from the synopsis of IASIP:

Each member of "The Gang" displays unethical behavior and traits such as excessive drinking and substance use, dishonesty, cruelty, selfishness, and egotism. Episodes usually find them hatching elaborate schemes and often conspiring against one another and others for personal gain, vengeance, or simply the entertainment of watching another's downfall. They habitually inflict mental, emotional, and physical pain on each other and anyone who crosses their path. They also regularly use blackmail to manipulate one another and others outside of the group.

The Gang's unity is never solid, and they will quickly dump any of the others for a quick profit or personal gain regardless of the consequences. Despite this, they ultimately return to their usual group dynamic due to their toxic codependency. Everything they do results in contention among themselves and much of the show's dialogue involves the characters arguing or yelling at one another.

I contend this synopsis works equally well for Breaking Bad, with only minor changes.

Also from Wikipedia:

Themes:
Moral consequences
Devotion to family
Pride

This time, it's from the Breaking Bad page. But it's also basically the list of central themes to all of the plots and humor of IASIP.
 

payn

Hero
I'm going to be lazy and copy/paste from Wikipedia.

This is the from the synopsis of IASIP:



I contend this synopsis works equally well for Breaking Bad, with only minor changes.

Also from Wikipedia:



This time, it's from the Breaking Bad page. But it's also basically the list of central themes to all of the plots and humor of IASIP.
50% of television shows fall into those generalities.
 

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top