Twenty chapters or twenty-one?I creeched louder still, creeching: 'Am I just to be like a clockwork orange?' It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem real when you hear them with the ol' Billy Tell.
The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread
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Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
(I wrote a very long paper on this in college. The answer is simply that the difference results in completely different messages. Which version you "prefer" is much more a reflection of how you view humanity.)
I'm going to phrase this basically as it comes to me, please do not take it as an attack: What do (or perhaps did) you think it says about my view of humanity that I prefer the story with the 21st chapter? Does it change your thinking that my reason (that I was most aware of) was because that's the version Burgess preferred?
Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
Personal preferences are a heckuva thing. People ... well, they like what they like. I think that there are a number of people who like the 21 chapter version because others are unfamiliar with it, so it has the dual imprimatur of being "cool" (like a band that other people don't know about) as well as being the "intended meaning" of the author. But a lot of people genuinely prefer it for the message.
...but the story comes with an even more complicated twist. Yes, the book originally was written with 21 chapters. And yes, Burgess later complained about the "American cut." But later letters show that Burgess was actually more ambivalent about the American cut than he publicly let on. The inclusion of the 21st chapter doesn't make the story better; instead, it takes away the power of the story in exchange for a force-fed pabulum ending. "Hey reader- free will is good. Maturity matters." IMO.
I came to this opinion over time, and a LOT of reading of the book and viewing of the movie. The inclusion of the 21st chapter makes the overall work ... worse. I appreciate his reasoning (and yes, 21 = age, 21 = 3x7, etc.), but the editor did an unqualified good to the world in excising that chapter. The book should end with, "I was cured all right." Providing easy answers ... make the book worse.
But I respect that others think differently.
Endings are ... difficult, and often arbitrary. There is (or seems from here to be) consistency between your thoughts on irony and ambiguity and your thoughts on the "easy answers" in the 21st chapter.
But that's enough serious talk and deep thinking. Let's have a gif!
@Snarf Zagyg Also, thanks for the serious answer.
Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
Especially if it's someone else's pizza because everyone else likes crap pizza.Look! It's no thread on enworld, ever!
Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
I have engaged in the art of advanced Rules-lawyering to ensure that not only does my side of the pizza had the correct(tm) toppings, but your side of the pizza has the correct(tm) toppings as well.
So basically you order for the table.I have engaged in the art of advanced Rules-lawyering to ensure that not only does my side of the pizza had the correct(tm) toppings, but your side of the pizza has the correct(tm) toppings as well.
Blessed be, indeed.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
I have often argued that endings are overrated in determining the value of a story.
For example, I think LOST was an (overall) awesome show. Some people argue that the ending and lack of answers "ruined it." I argue that the whole point was they were lost all along and any ending involving "finding answers" would have been worse (and to the degree they tried to give answers in that ending is what made it awful). I simply have never re-watched that ending, but have enjoyed part of the previous seasons over and over.
This is out of date now (esp. given Adnan Syad's recent freeing from prison), but I explored the idea of endings using Lost and the Serial podcast back in 2014: “We have to go back!” Getting Lost in the Serial Podcast
For example, I think LOST was an (overall) awesome show. Some people argue that the ending and lack of answers "ruined it." I argue that the whole point was they were lost all along and any ending involving "finding answers" would have been worse (and to the degree they tried to give answers in that ending is what made it awful). I simply have never re-watched that ending, but have enjoyed part of the previous seasons over and over.
This is out of date now (esp. given Adnan Syad's recent freeing from prison), but I explored the idea of endings using Lost and the Serial podcast back in 2014: “We have to go back!” Getting Lost in the Serial Podcast
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
Looking through old Unearthed Arcana playtest documents be like
Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
Order for the table?
I order for the restaurant. Then I go all James Corden until the pizzeria starts "making the Pizza right."
Some of the overvaluing is probably because it's what you're most likely to remember--I mean, if you read a 150,000-word novel, you're more likely to remember the end than some random 4,000-word passage about halfway through.
Also, see my previous comment about how endings can be difficult (from the author's POV) and are often kinda arbitrary, because there's almost always more that'll happen. Beginnings, you have an instigating event.
I'm a big fan of standing a round, now and again.Order for the table?
I order for the restaurant. Then I go all James Corden until the pizzeria starts "making the Pizza right."
As a side note, I mostly don't go to bars for budgetary reasons.
payn
He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
I remember this Agatha Christie novel (with a terrible title changed to an equally terrible title...) that had this mysterious island meetup with a group of strangers. Actually, its a pretty great story because all of them have done something terrible, and have no reason why they were brought together. All they know is they are being bumped off one by one. Christie added a prologue to the book that gives answers to all the mystery that essentially ruins the story.
I think all these strange phenomena series suffer the same fate. The show is interesting because of the mystery. Once you start explaining it, however, things get less interesting and the experience suffers. I actually prefer open endings with answers still in the wind to something logical to explain it away. Folks tend to hate open endings though. I remember a bunch of folks pissed that Fellowship of the Ring didn't have a definite conclusion at the end of the film. There was also no way they didn't know it was part of a trilogy, but that didn't matter they still wanted a definite ending.
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