The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread

[overgeeked]

It's what I took from it when I saw it when it first came out in the cinema. The guy was an a-hole without an ounce of self-awareness.

Same. And exactly. He's the poster boy for white privilege and white rage. He's a male Karen with a bat then a bag of guns.

 

[overgeeked]

In that case, yours is certainly a different take, well more recent take than others on it.

No. I saw it when it was new and had that take back then. The linked article just encapsulates it better than I could.

But a remake done with anyone in the lead role snapping like that would totally fall under the "not getting the respect they think they deserve" umbrella

The original does it well enough.

I see it as joker's "one bad day away" from snapping. I mean from what his Ex said to Robert Duvall's character it was only a matter of time before he got physical.

You know the Joker's the villain in that movie, too...right?

It's a story of a dude suffering road rage and he keeps escalating every single time someone doesn't give him what he thinks he deserves or is owed. The Korean store owner won't give him the change he wants to make a phone call, so he gets pissy, refuses to leave, is justifiably threatened with a bat, steals the owners bat, then smashes up the place...over a quarter to make a phone call. The only time in the film where he's justified is when he's almost mugged by the gangbangers. That's it. The rest of the film is him being a privileged jackhole with a bag of guns.

 

[Ryujin]

I saw it in a theatre, when it first came out. My take on it now is far different from then, as I've developed far more self awareness. There's a reason why the vast majority of mass shooters are White males.

 

[Ryujin]

No. I saw it when it was new and had that take back then. The linked article just encapsulates it better than I could.

The original does it well enough.

You know the Joker's the villain in that movie, too...right?

It's a story of a dude suffering road rage and he keeps escalating every single time someone doesn't give him what he thinks he deserves or is owed. The Korean store owner won't give him the change he wants to make a phone call, so he gets pissy, refuses to leave, is justifiably threatened with a bat, steals the owners bat, then smashes up the place...over a quarter to make a phone call. The only time in the film where he's justified is when he's almost mugged by the gangbangers. That's it. The rest of the film is him being a privileged jackhole with a bag of guns.

The whole thing starts with him being laid-off. It's an escalation.

 

[overgeeked]

The whole thing starts with him being laid-off. It's an escalation.

Yes. I was referring to the violence. He gets violent over a quarter. Getting laid off isn't an excuse to freak out and start breaking other people's stuff and/or hurting people. He's not the victim in the film, he's the villain.

 

[Ryujin]

Yes. I was referring to the violence. He gets violent over a quarter. Getting laid off isn't an excuse to freak out and start breaking other people's stuff and/or hurting people. He's not the victim in the film, he's the villain.

Absolutely. Just as, as previously stated, Phoenix's Joker is the villain of that movie. They're both essentially origin stories, not written to make you empathize with the main character. The lay-off is a "trigger event."

 

[trappedslider]

The whole thing starts with him being laid-off. It's an escalation.

Well, he was emotionally abusive to his ex-wife and kid before the movie starts. Then he attempts to kill that fly in his car showing his actual anger.

Yes. I was referring to the violence. He gets violent over a quarter. Getting laid off isn't an excuse to freak out and start breaking other people's stuff and/or hurting people. He's not the victim in the film, he's the villain.

Technically, he got violent when the shopkeeper thought he was robbing him since the shopkeeper refused to be a decent human and just give him change for the dollar despite having his till open, and his prices were over the top in D-fense's eyes.


It also feels like a more violent evolution of

 

[overgeeked]

Well, he was emotionally abusive to his ex-wife and kid before the movie starts.

So he's clearly absolute trash as a human. Got it.

Technically, he got violent when the shopkeeper thought he was robbing him since the shopkeeper refused to be a decent human and just give him change for the dollar despite having his till open, and his prices were over the top in D-fense's eyes.

So blaming the victim. Got it.

I'm out. Good luck.

 

[trappedslider]

another white privilege movie this time from the 70s

 

[Gradine]

The thing about the whole "Films People Miss the Point Of By Rooting for the Villain Protagonist" thing is that I think it often critically leaves out the actual intentions of the filmmaker. I'm not convinced that we weren't supposed to be rooting for Michael Douglas, or the Joker, or Tyler Durden*... I sure as hell don't trust Todd freaking Phillips with that kind of nuance, at a minimum. "Sociopathic White Man" was basically the action hero of the 70's (in case you thought Dirty Harry supposed to be sensible and mild-mannered).

Like, viewed through today's lens, yes, absolutely, all of these men and horrible, privileged, murderous sociopaths, but for some of these films I don't think the problem is "You got the wrong lesson from this movie"; it's more "this movie is just terrible."


*film version only, the book is pretty clear about how it feels

 

[Scribe]

I mean yeah, its over the top, unless I'm misremembering he fires off a bazooka...but I think yeah its Jokers one bad day.

 

[Gradine]

The point being lost from the original comic that the Joker's theory is completely wrong

 

[Scribe]

The point being lost from the original comic that the Joker's theory is completely wrong

I dont think running around with a bazooka is exactly correct, and I'm pretty sure the end of falling down, hes still seen as someone who's going to jail/wrong? Its been a long time.

 

[trappedslider]

The thing about the whole "Films People Miss the Point Of By Rooting for the Villain Protagonist" thing is that I think it often critically leaves out the actual intentions of the filmmaker. I'm not convinced that we weren't supposed to be rooting for Michael Douglas, or the Joker, or Tyler Durden*... I sure as hell don't trust Todd freaking Phillips with that kind of nuance, at a minimum. "Sociopathic White Man" was basically the action hero of the 70's (in case you thought Dirty Harry supposed to be sensible and mild-mannered).

Like, viewed through today's lens, yes, absolutely, all of these men and horrible, privileged, murderous sociopaths, but for some of these films I don't think the problem is "You got the wrong lesson from this movie"; it's more "this movie is just terrible."


*film version only, the book is pretty clear about how it feels

As you go with Douglas, you start to switch from "That was a violent overreaction but I kind of understand being angry" (shopkeeper) to "I hope he gets arrested or shot" not counting the neo-nazi

I mean yeah, its over the top, unless I'm misremembering he fires off a bazooka...but I think yeah its Jokers one bad day.

What's funny is that the kid pointed out to him how to work it, (kid learned from tv)

The point being lost from the original comic that the Joker's theory is completely wrong

Devuall's character even points this out at the end that well, I'll post what he says

"Is that what this is about? You're angry because you got lied to? Is that why my chicken dinner is drying out in the oven? Listen, pal, they lie to everyone. They lie to the fish. But that doesn't give you any special right to do what you did today."

I dont think running around with a bazooka is exactly correct, and I'm pretty sure the end of falling down, hes still seen as someone who's going to jail/wrong? Its been a long time.

He doesn't get the bazooka till near the end, but he does suicide by cop when he finally fully realizes what he's become.

 

[Scribe]

He doesn't get the bazooka till near the end, but he does suicide by cop when he finally fully realizes what he's become.

Then uhh yeah I dont think he would be seen as the good guy. lol

 

[trappedslider]

so I made some cyberpunk-inspired and steampunk stuff

Spoiler

 

[trappedslider]

Then uhh yeah I dont think he would be seen as the good guy. lol

There are moments when we're "supposedly" able to identify with him like the street that's being worked on.

But depending on how you view him, Foster is either a very dark Anti-Hero version of the Working-Class Hero trope or a straight deconstruction. While he is an educated man, he made his bones as an aerospace engineer working for a paycheck rather than a scientist or an academic. When he snaps after being laid off, he is the Angry White Man personified, raging at a society that left him and others like him behind and treading a very dark path that leaves nothing but destruction. For every cogent point he raises about the world he, the other characters, and the viewer live in, he then proceeds to cast a very dark shadow over it through his increasingly horrifying actions and his pettier and more questionable concerns.

I mean if we're really going to look at then Prendergast, Sandra, Beth, and Adele aside, most of the characters in this film are deeply unpleasant people. Bill Foster was an emotionally abusive husband to Beth and scared her so much that she slapped a restraining order on him. The people he encounters on his journey across the city include Gangbangers, a Neo Nazi, a Phony Veteran looking to mooch off him, a greedy shop owner who won't break a bill for a man in need and overcharges for everything in his store, a restaurant manager who won't give him a breakfast order despite the fact that breakfast only ended a minute prior and they still have breakfast meals warmed and ready to serve, a construction crew screwing up the roads for no reason other than justifying their inflated budget, and a golfer who intentionally attempts to hit him with a golf ball. Even some of Prendergast's colleagues at the LAPD are pricks, especially his captain and Sandra's new partner.

 

[J.Quondam]

so I made some cyberpunk-inspired and steampunk stuff

View attachment 279169

I like how it starts numbering the clock face correctly, but gives up and just sort of mumble-mumbles after three... but then swoops in with a slam-dunk when it gets to twelve.

...which, to be fair, still makes it better than I am at Roman numerals.

 

[trappedslider]

I like how it starts numbering the clock face correctly, but gives up and just sort of mumble-mumbles after three... but then swoops in with a slam-dunk when it gets to twelve.

...which, to be fair, still makes it better than I am at Roman numerals.

the clock keeps track of some seconds lol

 

[MarkB]

There are moments when we're "supposedly" able to identify with him like the street that's being worked on.

But depending on how you view him, Foster is either a very dark Anti-Hero version of the Working-Class Hero trope or a straight deconstruction. While he is an educated man, he made his bones as an aerospace engineer working for a paycheck rather than a scientist or an academic. When he snaps after being laid off, he is the Angry White Man personified, raging at a society that left him and others like him behind and treading a very dark path that leaves nothing but destruction. For every cogent point he raises about the world he, the other characters, and the viewer live in, he then proceeds to cast a very dark shadow over it through his increasingly horrifying actions and his pettier and more questionable concerns.

Which flew over a lot of peoples' heads. I remember the reports of how many American audiences were applauding him at every fresh outburst, pretty much to the bitter end.

The thing I most remember from the movie is when he runs into someone's house near the end, and he cannot understand why she is panicking and treating him like a bad person - when he is literally standing in her home waving a gun around.