The Immortal's Handbook: Gods & Monsters (unfinished)

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Maxconfidence!

Hi! I know it's been a decade,

Probably longer - I had that book in the pipeline around 2006 ish.

but how much it will cost support the creation of the finished book of "Immortal Handbook: Gods & Monsters"?

I wouldn't want to get anyone's hopes up.

1. I have other books I want to do (on top of the 140 page graphic novel I have that is 100 pages completed).
2. I don't really want to do it.
3. My 3E knowledge has diminished to the point it would take me several months to be even competent with it, let alone (as I saw it) having a Matrix like understanding of its systems.

There is any possibility that Craig Cochrane will do it?

Its extremely slim (and I am Craig Cochrane so I can speak for him). I mean never say never I suppose. But there would be far more chance of me doing an Epic Bestiary Volume 2 than Gods & Monsters (and there is only a small chance of that).

Or I missed something and this book have been already released? I have searched for any material about "Immortal Handbook" and I found "Ascension", "Gods & Monsters unfinished" and "Epic Bestiary Volume 1".

That's all there is.

There was the Epic Bestiary, Ascension and both Gods & Monsters and Grimoire were sort of partially done. But I just got burnt out on 3E plus I had just started a new job and had next to zero free time.

I wish I had done more books back around that time, but the truth was I was just too slow a writer (I think I just over-thought things).

Part of me wants to do an Epic Bestiary Volume 2, but I get put off when I remember all the minutiae of 3E.

 

[Alzrius]

Part of me wants to do an Epic Bestiary Volume 2, but I get put off when I remember all the minutiae of 3E.

As someone who's never moved on from 3E (unless you count Pathfinder 1E), let me know if you ever need help with the mechanical end of that particular desire, U_K.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy mate!

As someone who's never moved on from 3E (unless you count Pathfinder 1E), let me know if you ever need help with the mechanical end of that particular desire, U_K.

I know if I ever need help with 3e mechanics that yourself and the other posters here would be only too willing to help out.

Part of me really wants to do an Epic Bestiary 2 - that could be fun. I'll mull it over. Its just finding/making the time.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Howdy mate!

I know if I ever need help with 3e mechanics that yourself and the other posters here would be only too willing to help out.

Part of me really wants to do an Epic Bestiary 2 - that could be fun. I'll mull it over. Its just finding/making the time.

U_K!

Its been a while, hasn't it?

Just wanted to stop in and say 'Hi!' since it feels like ages since I've been back here. I hope you are doing well.

As for Epic Bestiary 2? I'd love that, personally. I also think there is still a market for that kind of thing, especially if you were willing to do a pathfinder port (3.x stuff is pretty easily converted with a few changes here and there). There is quite the online marketplace for independent RPG PDF publishers and PF1 seems to still be relevant.

Plus, PDF writing software seems less barbaric than it was way back in the days of the IH (I frequently make campaign setting and game info docs with Tables of Contents that link to their chapters for my home games, and it takes pretty much no effort), so I think some of your formatting headaches might be alleviated. (I remember those really dragged down the IH editing, among other things, especially the font kerning)

You could also get more community feedback and support more easily these days as well. Several RPG studios do open play-tests of their work (where they make public a beta document, and solicit feedback via Googledocs or similar functions) and with communications tools more freely accessible, I don't think organizing such an endeavor would be too difficult. (You could, for example, create an Eternity Publishing discord server for discussing and organizing such things, either public, for discussing your books, or private, for playtesting and editing; such things might be a bit faster than email and forums, as much as I have fond memories of them)

Whatever you decide to do, I hope it works out. Your ideas were cool and your math, as I've seen over the last Decade-and-a-half has never steered me or my groups wrong.

 

[Upper_Krust]

U_K!

Its been a while, hasn't it?

Great to hear from you Ltheb amigo!

Just wanted to stop in and say 'Hi!' since it feels like ages since I've been back here. I hope you are doing well.

Hasn't been a great year (though I suspect most people could say that); my father passed away in April. Other than that I guess I can't really complain.

Been working on a Graphic Novel (immortals related) and its 105 pages of 140 done.

Hopefully you have been doing well yourself buddy?

As for Epic Bestiary 2? I'd love that, personally. I also think there is still a market for that kind of thing, especially if you were willing to do a pathfinder port (3.x stuff is pretty easily converted with a few changes here and there). There is quite the online marketplace for independent RPG PDF publishers and PF1 seems to still be relevant.

I'd be doing it more for fun I imagine. Its nice when these things make back their money and a bit extra but I don't know if epic material would warrant a crowdfund campaign.

Plus, PDF writing software seems less barbaric than it was way back in the days of the IH (I frequently make campaign setting and game info docs with Tables of Contents that link to their chapters for my home games, and it takes pretty much no effort), so I think some of your formatting headaches might be alleviated. (I remember those really dragged down the IH editing, among other things, especially the font kerning)

Good grief so many problems back then buddy. :-D

What pdf writing software are you using?

You could also get more community feedback and support more easily these days as well. Several RPG studios do open play-tests of their work (where they make public a beta document, and solicit feedback via Googledocs or similar functions) and with communications tools more freely accessible, I don't think organizing such an endeavor would be too difficult.

If its a new RPG game then I see the value of the playtesting, but if its something small like a bestiary or a mini-adventure, I'm happy eyeballing it.

(You could, for example, create an Eternity Publishing discord server for discussing and organizing such things, either public, for discussing your books, or private, for playtesting and editing; such things might be a bit faster than email and forums, as much as I have fond memories of them)

I am considering a Facebook page for epic level D&D. I also have (as an aside) a handful of crazy epic t-shirt ideas (which would be cool if I could get sorted).

Whatever you decide to do, I hope it works out. Your ideas were cool and your math, as I've seen over the last Decade-and-a-half has never steered me or my groups wrong.

Thanks mate. I appreciate the kind words.

The big problem for me always seems to be time.

When I wrote the Bestiary and Ascension I had no job or relationship. Now I have both. Added to which I have a lot of time and a not inconsiderable (to me) amount of money invested in the Graphic Novel. So as of now I probably have (at best) 6-8 hours per week for any RPG projects.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

U_K!

I am sorry to hear about your father. This year has taken a few relatives from me too, so I hope you are managing well.

A graphic novel? Sounds cool. I did always like your art style, and your writing style struck a good balance between distinct descriptions and whimsy; making sense, but open to interpretation and imagination. If you are that far in, keep it up! I do hope to some day read it.

As for PDF authoring software, I just use Open Office (Which I don't know about for commercial use, but for private use, is free) or, imagine this, Microsoft Word. Both offer functionality to convert a word document into a PDF with as much ease as printing a document takes. You can sign and lock the PDFs if needed, and while they don't have all the cool bells and whistles of the more industrial PDF editing software, are very user friendly.

Further, at least with open office, (and Word too I believe, though I have not played around with it) you can make internal hyperlinks within the document, so that clicking on words and terms links you to the proper sections. If you want to get really crazy with it, it can take some time to setup, but just making a Table of Contents at the start of the document link to chapters, headings, and subheadings throughout takes maybe 30 seconds, and once its set up, requires no further upkeep on your part (it doesn't try to link to a page or any nonsense; it dynamically tracks the location of the heading it links to). One of my players was once disappointed that an RPG pdf he bought didn't have the functionality, and I have to agree; its so easy to add in.
(I've whipped up an example PDF of this, and attached it if you want to take a look; It took less than 10 minutes to put together, and most of that was the actual typing; formatting and linking all were automatic.)

As for play-testing I'd probably agree. About the only issue with things of epic level nature is that many of them require one of two things:
1. A clear understanding of what the author's intent on how the mechanics should function. Some mechanics and rules require or are at least well supported by a larger body of rules text. (An example: in the Immortal's Handbook, the Abrogate ability has such a simple writeup, but really needs a page or two of rules to explain what it should and should not be able to do, since one DM may interpret what it can do differently than another.)
2. How the rules of the game interact with the mechanic as written. Some mechanics, even when simple, might have subtle interactions with the game rules that might be complicated. (Example: In Pathfinder, a firearm is made as an attack against touch armor class within its first few range increments, but does not count as a touch attack itself, and so could interact with the PF ranged power attack feat, which normally prohibits use with touch attacks.)

So, a bit of either play-testing or getting 2nd opinions on rules interactions and clarity may be helpful; doubly so if you are rusty.

And for time? Well, we never do seem to have enough of it these days. Having done quite a bit of writing and running some very involved campaigns I know how that can just suck up all your free time, and a lot of this epic level stuff requires a lot more analysis of game rules, and of mythology, lore, and story implications. Hopefully you either find a good balance, or at the minimum, have a good time with what you decide to do.

 

[Upper_Krust]

U_K!

Hello again Ltheb amigo!

I am sorry to hear about your father. This year has taken a few relatives from me too, so I hope you are managing well.

Had a few emotional moments but I'll be fine.

A graphic novel? Sounds cool. I did always like your art style, and your writing style struck a good balance between distinct descriptions and whimsy; making sense, but open to interpretation and imagination. If you are that far in, keep it up! I do hope to some day read it.

Well I am not illustrating it - I have a great artist from the Phillipines drawing (although I do the layouts for him) and another talented artist from Mexico colouring it.

Should be finished Spring 2021.

As for PDF authoring software, I just use Open Office (Which I don't know about for commercial use, but for private use, is free) or, imagine this, Microsoft Word. Both offer functionality to convert a word document into a PDF with as much ease as printing a document takes. You can sign and lock the PDFs if needed, and while they don't have all the cool bells and whistles of the more industrial PDF editing software, are very user friendly.

I was going to buy Adobe InDesign but they are asking so much for it now. I have Word on this new laptop - I'll give that a spin and see how I get on.

Further, at least with open office, (and Word too I believe, though I have not played around with it) you can make internal hyperlinks within the document, so that clicking on words and terms links you to the proper sections. If you want to get really crazy with it, it can take some time to setup, but just making a Table of Contents at the start of the document link to chapters, headings, and subheadings throughout takes maybe 30 seconds, and once its set up, requires no further upkeep on your part (it doesn't try to link to a page or any nonsense; it dynamically tracks the location of the heading it links to). One of my players was once disappointed that an RPG pdf he bought didn't have the functionality, and I have to agree; its so easy to add in.
(I've whipped up an example PDF of this, and attached it if you want to take a look; It took less than 10 minutes to put together, and most of that was the actual typing; formatting and linking all were automatic.)

Cool thanks, I'll check it out after I finish this post.

As for play-testing I'd probably agree. About the only issue with things of epic level nature is that many of them require one of two things:
1. A clear understanding of what the author's intent on how the mechanics should function. Some mechanics and rules require or are at least well supported by a larger body of rules text. (An example: in the Immortal's Handbook, the Abrogate ability has such a simple writeup, but really needs a page or two of rules to explain what it should and should not be able to do, since one DM may interpret what it can do differently than another.)
2. How the rules of the game interact with the mechanic as written. Some mechanics, even when simple, might have subtle interactions with the game rules that might be complicated. (Example: In Pathfinder, a firearm is made as an attack against touch armor class within its first few range increments, but does not count as a touch attack itself, and so could interact with the PF ranged power attack feat, which normally prohibits use with touch attacks.)

Well heh there are always forums for asking questions. ;-)

So, a bit of either play-testing or getting 2nd opinions on rules interactions and clarity may be helpful; doubly so if you are rusty.

That's true.

And for time? Well, we never do seem to have enough of it these days. Having done quite a bit of writing and running some very involved campaigns I know how that can just suck up all your free time, and a lot of this epic level stuff requires a lot more analysis of game rules, and of mythology, lore, and story implications. Hopefully you either find a good balance, or at the minimum, have a good time with what you decide to do.

Going to take some time off work soon and I'll try and get a lot of writing done during that time.

 

[Rhuarc]

Just quickly chiming in here to say that I'd be happy with pretty much any product UK might release, as long as it has something to do with epic D&D. Another bestiary would almost top my list (besides a basic epic/immortal ruleset for 5E or PF 2), so you will have my support for such a project for sure!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Rhuarc mate!

Just quickly chiming in here to say that I'd be happy with pretty much any product UK might release, as long as it has something to do with epic D&D. Another bestiary would almost top my list (besides a basic epic/immortal ruleset for 5E or PF 2), so you will have my support for such a project for sure!

Thanks for the kind words. I'll see what I can do. In true Eternity Publishing fashion don't be holding your breath of course...but 'stuff' is in the pipeline.