The New Core Pantheon

[Torm]

That's a solid list for any campaign, whether D&D adopts something similiar or not.

Seconded, 'cept I think I would use Ra instead of Pelor.

 

[Sundragon2012]

I have to say that my suspension of disbelief goes off the deep end when I see Isis, Thor, Ra, Odin, Apollo, Hel, Pelor and whatever hodgepodge of dieties just tossed together in a big ol' deity grab bag. Especially when anyone would attempt to call them a pantheon.

Some of these gods have a great deal of cultural baggage in that they are so powerfully associated with a given culture that IMO it just seems to cheapen their potential if removed from a fantasy society that bears at least a semblance of similarity with the one that actually worshipped them. Horus just makes more sense in a culture reminiscent of ancient Egypt. Odin makes more sense in a culture similar to Norse culture. I am not saying complete historical analogues are necessary, of course not, but some recognizable connection is IMO best.

The fact is that nearly all fantasy societies bear resemblance to some historical cultures, even if its vanilaa D&D's pseudo-medieval european culture. The only time I have seen this not be the case is in a completely alien world like Tekumel.

I can see something like in ancient Rome where gods of all cultures rubbed shoulders BUT there was an actual coherent Roman pantheon that was at the core of the culture. The hawk headed Ra serving as the Sun God while Thor is in the same pantheon as the God of War or whatnot makes no sense whatsoever.

The best route IMO is to have a core set of gods who appear in different guises and names throughout the setting's various cultures both human and otherwise. Dragonlance did this and it is something I have been doing forever in my own homebrew campaign. This prevents a glut of gods and IMO gives everthing a nice feeling of versimilitude.



Sundragon

 

[Aloïsius]

I have to say that my suspension of disbelief goes off the deep end when I see Isis, Thor, Ra, Odin, Apollo, Hel, Pelor and whatever hodgepodge of dieties just tossed together in a big ol' deity grab bag. Especially when anyone would attempt to call them a pantheon.

The way I see it, they are rather proposing example from multiple pantheons. Wan't to play a norse-like barbarian ? here is Thor. Want to play some kind of egyptian cleric-sorcerer : here is Thot.

In a point of like setting, the adventurers are nearly always foreigners, wherever they go, thus, a party of adventurers probably is a mix of various cultures.

 

[Sundragon2012]

The way I see it, they are rather proposing example from multiple pantheons. Wan't to play a norse-like barbarian ? here is Thor. Want to play some kind of egyptian cleric-sorcerer : here is Thot.

In a point of like setting, the adventurers are nearly always foreigners, wherever they go, thus, a party of adventurers probably is a mix of various cultures.

As an example I completely agree, its a great way to jumpstart people new to the game into being able to play various roles without a lot of fuss. I just would like the core "pantheon" presented as what it is...a loose collection of gods NOT masquerading as a real pantheon but as a sense of plug and play achetypes to provide inspiration to both players and DMs.



Sundragon

 

[Klaus]

I have to say that my suspension of disbelief goes off the deep end when I see Isis, Thor, Ra, Odin, Apollo, Hel, Pelor and whatever hodgepodge of dieties just tossed together in a big ol' deity grab bag. Especially when anyone would attempt to call them a pantheon.

Some of these gods have a great deal of cultural baggage in that they are so powerfully associated with a given culture that IMO it just seems to cheapen their potential if removed from a fantasy society that bears at least a semblance of similarity with the one that actually worshipped them. Horus just makes more sense in a culture reminiscent of ancient Egypt. Odin makes more sense in a culture similar to Norse culture. I am not saying complete historical analogues are necessary, of course not, but some recognizable connection is IMO best.

The fact is that nearly all fantasy societies bear resemblance to some historical cultures, even if its vanilaa D&D's pseudo-medieval european culture. The only time I have seen this not be the case is in a completely alien world like Tekumel.

I can see something like in ancient Rome where gods of all cultures rubbed shoulders BUT there was an actual coherent Roman pantheon that was at the core of the culture. The hawk headed Ra serving as the Sun God while Thor is in the same pantheon as the God of War or whatnot makes no sense whatsoever.

The best route IMO is to have a core set of gods who appear in different guises and names throughout the setting's various cultures both human and otherwise. Dragonlance did this and it is something I have been doing forever in my own homebrew campaign. This prevents a glut of gods and IMO gives everthing a nice feeling of versimilitude.



Sundragon

Well, do what the Romans and Egyptians and Greeks did: assimilate the gods.

Pelor = Ra = Apollo = that norse sun-god in Deities & Demigods
Heironeous = Horus = Athena = Thor
Hextor = Sekhmet = Ares = Loki

etc, etc. Alignment of the church, domains and symbols vary by culture.

 

[RFisher]

The fact is that nearly all fantasy societies bear resemblance to some historical cultures, even if its vanilaa D&D's pseudo-medieval european culture.

Which is why polytheism has always seemed out-of-place in D&D to me. (Especially with clerics & paladins in the Christian mold.) If I'm accepting polytheism in a medieval European setting, I can accept a melting-pot pantheon.

Actually, I'm not too sure that--in the absence of Christianity--you might not have gotten something like that. The Roman & Teutonic pantheons fading away in favor of individual cults based on borrowed deities--like Mithra & Isis. Cults which--lacking the original cultural context--venerate a charactiture of the original deity. No so much different that players picking our own pop-culture versions of the ancient gods for their PC's patron.

 

[Sundragon2012]

Which is why polytheism has always seemed out-of-place in D&D to me. (Especially with clerics & paladins in the Christian mold.) If I'm accepting polytheism in a medieval European setting, I can accept a melting-pot pantheon.

Actually, I'm not too sure that--in the absence of Christianity--you might not have gotten something like that. The Roman & Teutonic pantheons fading away in favor of individual cults based on borrowed deities--like Mithra & Isis. Cults which--lacking the original cultural context--venerate a charactiture of the original deity. No so much different that players picking our own pop-culture versions of the ancient gods for their PC's patron.

Medieval culture could have developed in a polytheistic society as well save that instead of one true religion their would have been several true religions vying for influence. D&D's medievalism is representative of the real thing insofar as technology and a relative handful of tropes such as knights, kings, semi-feudal society, and whatnot. Interestingly enough D&D's pseudo-medivalism lacks the influence of religion which makes it more about the level of technology than anything else). There is no reason to believe that such a society could not have developed in a polytheistic culture. It just takes imagining that Rome fell without Christianity being the dominant religion when it did.

However, the mishmash of dieties is preposterous because all religions and pantheons have shared mythology, this is what makes them pantheons. Without this this is nothing sensible about the organization. At worst, it is nothing more than a ploy to find some way to use deities with D&D and mythic name recognition to increase the cache of the implied Core setting. At best, as has been discussed on this thread earlier, it is a way to jumpstart new DMs and players into playing the game with recognizable archetypal gods to avoid confusion.



Sundragon

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Kalamar?

Oh. You meant Dragonlance. Well, close enough.

Ironically, of course, "Kalamar" was the name of a city in Krynn before it was ever a campaign setting of its own.

21 was the precise number of gods in the Dragonlance setting, all of whom were known and worshipped by all of the intelligent races under different names and with different emphases; for instance, minotaurs revered Sargonnas, as Sargas, more than they did his objectively-more-powerful-and-important consort Takhisis, the supreme evil deity.

 

[RFisher]

However, the mishmash of dieties is preposterous because all religions and pantheons have shared mythology, this is what makes them pantheons.

Some scholars believe the Romans had no myths about their gods until they associated them with their Greek counterparts & imported the Greek myths.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Ironically, of course, "Kalamar" was the name of a city in Krynn before it was ever a campaign setting of its own.

I thought Kalamar was the name of that dark elf wizard, oh, wait, that was Dalamar…