D&D (2024) The new warlock (Packet 7)

[Neonchameleon]

I have no idea what "unorthodox" in this context would mean. What is orthodoxy in using smite just when you crit? That's....very standard. There is nothing wrong with using the invocation you chose expressly to increase damage that way to calculate the average damage you'd do with that thing included.

Using Smite when you crit is standard play for Paladins.

Using Smite in a baseline DPR calculation is calculating DPR in a way that is not normally done because it is a limited use ability.

 

[Stalker0]

As long as you have Spirit Shroud at all, yes. That's the broken part here.

Also your math is broken I think, You don't add double the rolled damage for a crit - you already have it in the baseline; your chance of hitting is 60% (from the graze) not 65%. So instead of

It should be (and subsituting out the broken thing)

• 2d6 + 5 (Base Greatsword) * 60% +
• 2d6 (Crit) * 5% +
• 1d6 (Lifedrinker) * 60% +
• 1d6 (Lifedrinker Crit) * 5% +
• 1d6 (Hex)
• 1d6 (Hex Crit) * 5%
• 5 (Graze) * 40%

On a hit that's 4d6+5 *60% + 5*40%
With an additional 4d6 *5% to account for crits

Rounding slightly (because I'm doing this in my head) that's 12 (hit) + 2 (graze) + 0.75 (crit) = 14.75 damage per attack = 44.25. Which is ... reasonable.

Spirit shroud does an extra (2d8-1d6=5.5) * (60% (hit) + 5% (crit)) damage per attack over hex, which, multiplying by 3 is just over 10. This leads to 55 DPR with Spirit Shroud, which is a bit much.

That's not how TM does his math that I can see. It looks like he does 60% hit + 5% crit (aka 65% hit overall)

 

[Mistwell]

Using Smite when you crit is standard play for Paladins.

Using Smite in a baseline DPR calculation is calculating DPR in a way that is not normally done because it is a limited use ability.

He's not using it in a baseline? Or do you mean something other than what people mean when they say baseline in optimization discussions?

It is in fact normal to use smite in optimization discussions of average damage, yes. That is 100% normal. It's part of the total damage calculation.

 

[Mistwell]

That's not how TM does his math that I can see. It looks like he does 60% hit + 5% crit (aka 65% hit overall)

Not sure about that. It's a good question for him.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Stop this. The whole point of this miserable playtest experience has been to make sure this new Players Handbook works with the last 10 years of D&D material, including spells released in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything (where the bulk of the new additions to the PHB are coming from.) Until we see an updated version of Spirit Shroud in a playtest, we have to assume it's 100% viable for builds and playtesting.

I've watched too many good ideas flushed down the crapper in the name of backwards compatibility to not have it matter now.

Can I ask which good ideas have been flushed in the name of backwards compatibility?

Because if one spell is breaking what is otherwise a good change we need to say "Change that spell" as the feedback. One of the purposes of playtesting is catching things to change.

 

[mellored]

Using Smite when you crit is standard play for Paladins.

Using Smite in a baseline DPR calculation is calculating DPR in a way that is not normally done because it is a limited use ability.

Treantmonk did it for the pally. So he should do it for the warlock. You need consistency when comparing.

But kind of yes, kind of no.

If you have enough uses to last though the whole day (mostly because you crit so rarely), then it’s reasonable to keep in the the DPR.

 

[Neonchameleon]

He's not using it in a baseline? Or do you mean something other than what people mean when they say baseline in optimization discussions?

It is in fact normal to use smite in optimization discussions of average damage, yes. That is 100% normal. It's part of the total damage calculation.

[Citation needed]

How do you normally work out DPR with limited resources? Smite affects burst damage. Not DPR.

That's not how TM does his math that I can see. It looks like he does 60% hit + 5% crit (aka 65% hit overall)

Nope. His chance of missing can be seen from Graze. Which is 40%. He does 60% chance of hitting + 5% chance of the extra damage from crits.

 

[Remathilis]

Can I ask which good ideas have been flushed in the name of backwards compatibility?

Because if one spell is breaking what is otherwise a good change we need to say "Change that spell" as the feedback. One of the purposes of playtesting is catching things to change.

I'm not relitigating playtest decisions for the 76th time. Search for my posts in this forum. I'm sure you'll disagree.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Treantmonk did it for the pally. So he should do it for the warlock. You need consistency when comparing.

If he did I take it back with my apologies. However [citation needed]

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm not relitigating playtest decisions for the 76th time. Search for my posts in this forum. I'm sure you'll disagree.

Almost certainly given that I think the only thing we've agreed on in the playtest is that template druids should have been explored further.