D&D (2024) The new warlock (Packet 7)

[Remathilis]

I have seen fireball and lightning bolt used quite a bit and I think they are ok. Magical blasting is an inefficient use of magic.
Control is the way to go, control spells can shut down fights.
I would agree with regard to shield but you are going to have to convince me that magic missile is overpowered.

Magic Missile is guaranteed damage that is rarely resisted. The fact it is 6-15 damage is all that keeps it in check.

 

[mellored]

Fireball is a poor example because Fireball is intentionally super broken. They did that because Fireball and Lightning Bolt are the iconic D&D damage spells, and they didn't want any chance they'd be sidelined by other choices. So those two are about 2d6 stronger than they should be for whatever level you cast them at.

Fireball covers a bigger area at a much greater range.

Even if the damage was the same, fireball would be a lot better.

But feel free to pick any 2 other spells. Upcasting is nearly always weaker.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Meanwhile

Spirit Guardians
3 conjuration
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self (15-foot radius)
Target: Self (15-foot radius)
Components: V S M (A holy symbol)
Duration: Up to 10 minutes

You call forth spirits to protect you. They flit around you to a distance of 15 feet for the duration. If you are good or neutral, their spectral form appears angelic or fey (your choice). If you are evil, they appear fiendish. When you cast this spell, you can designate any number of creatures you can see to be unaffected by it. An affected creature’s speed is halved in the area, and when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d8 radiant damage (if you are good or neutral) or 3d8 necrotic damage (if you are evil). On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 3rd.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

• Is Spirit Guardians generally a great spell and Spirit Shroud ... not? Yes
• Spirit Shroud is a very different spell because it's a single target burst spell that (like a smite) stacks with your normal attack
• It also front loads the damage because it takes a bonus action to cast and Spirit Guardians an action.

The two aren't remotely comparable spells. One's an AoE "cleaner" spell, the other's a single target.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Magic Missile is guaranteed damage that is rarely resisted. The fact it is 6-15 damage is all that keeps it in check.

That and the hit point bloat in 5e. It struggles to kill a standard orc.

 

[Amrûnril]

Fireball, lightning bolt, shield and magic missile all need a good nerf beating, but y'all aren't ready for that conversation by the likes of the counterspell debate...

As someone who likes the 2014 version of counterspell, I'd be fully in favor with nerfing fireball and lightning bolt.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Magic Missile is guaranteed damage that is rarely resisted. The fact it is 6-15 damage is all that keeps it in check.

I don't think it is worth the slot.

 

[Neonchameleon]

As someone who likes the 2014 version of counterspell, I'd be fully in favor with nerfing fireball and lightning bolt.

Whereas I'm all in favour of moar damage to combat hp bloat. Increase martial damage output - and lower performing damage spells (so among third level spels most that aren't named fireball, lightning bolt, or spirit guardians).

 

[mellored]

That and the hit point bloat in 5e. It struggles to kill a standard orc.

Magic missile should scale better.

Maybe like +1 dart, and all darts get +1 damage.

At level 3 it would be 5 darts * (d4+3)
= 27.5 vs 28 fireball

level 9, that's 12 darts * (d4+9)
= 138 damage vs 140 meteor swarm


That works really well actually.

 

[Remathilis]

Magic missile should scale better.

Maybe like +1 dart, and all darts get +1 damage.

At level 3 it would be 5 darts * (d4+3)
= 27.5 vs 28 fireball

level 9, that's 12 darts * (d4+9)
= 138 damage vs 140 meteor swarm


That works really well actually.

I mean, if it wasn't damage that is impossible to avoid (no attack roll, no save) and was a damage type easier to resist, I'd agree. But the damage has to suck because it's so hard to avoid.

 

[mellored]

I mean, if it wasn't damage that is impossible to avoid (no attack roll, no save) and was a damage type easier to resist, I'd agree. But the damage has to suck because it's so hard to avoid.

Considering fireball and meteor swarm hit multiple creatures, they will he dealing at least 2x as much total damage.

d4+spell level damage is still on the low side. But someone might actually cast it now and then.