The problem with D&D

[Urban Knight]

I accept that point buy is more open to abuse but I think it's less likely to be abused unless you have some munchkin or power gamer at work

What others call Power Gaming or Munchkining, I prefere to think of as simple efficiency.

Besides my AC in a game has never gone much past 50 'Mr AC 99'

I was thinking of getting the Silver and Black version of the car as it is more in keeping with my overall life view

 

[Xini]

What others call Power Gaming or Munchkining, I prefere to think of as simple efficiency.

Besides my AC in a game has never gone much past 50 'Mr AC 99'

I was thinking of getting the Silver and Black version of the car as it is more in keeping with my overall life view

Why cause it's overpowered and makes me cringe?

 

[Storm Raven]

This is way too much even for Gygaxian Greyhawk IMO, never mind Wilderlands or Nehwon. For one thing it renders conventional armies useless - maybe the kingdom can muster 10,000 Warriors, but they're only good for peacekeeping, all the real fighting will be done by the dozens of level 10-20 superheroes. You get something more like 'Way of the Exploding Fist' than LoTR.

Or, more culturally close to most of the posters here, more like the Iliad.

D&D plays a lot like the various Greek epics. A handful of named heroes and their significant adversaries with a background wash of nameless, faceless (and generally irrelevant) mooks. The heroes and adversaries do everything significant, and mooks that get in their way get tossed aside. Look at D&D from that perspective and it starts to make more thematic sense.

 

[Modin Godstalker]

In regards to Runequest, thing I always liked about it was how a character progressed. Everything was skill based. They had a great advancement mechanic which simulated the idea that you only increase skills which you use significantly or specificly seek training in. So the way you played your character would be a major determining factor in how your character progressed. Also, depending on what stats you were high in would also determine how quickley you could improve skills. It was very simple yet had a fairly realistic feel to it.

The combat was deadly. You could be clearly a more skillful warrior, but you still had to be careful in combat, because a serf with a garden tool could take you out if he got lucky. This was not a likely scenerio, but the chance was great enough, where it made players think before they acted in regards to fighting.

The biggest negative about this game, is the random character generation. This is not a negative to me, but I can see where some may not like it. One could probably house rule some type of point buy system, and there may have been alternate rules for that in the game (it has been a long time since I played it).

Runequest is great if you want to play in a campaign based on ancient Europe. Think the tv show Rome. Even a Conan type game would play well with it. It does not have a dungeon delving type atmosphere, although I don't see why you could not do that as well.

 

[S'mon]

Or, more culturally close to most of the posters here, more like the Iliad.

D&D plays a lot like the various Greek epics. A handful of named heroes and their significant adversaries with a background wash of nameless, faceless (and generally irrelevant) mooks. The heroes and adversaries do everything significant, and mooks that get in their way get tossed aside. Look at D&D from that perspective and it starts to make more thematic sense.

I think previous editions of D&D could play a lot like the Iliad, if you removed the M-U class. But in the Iliad the mooks aren't *totally* irrelevant the way they are in high level D&D, eg sometimes the press of spear-carriers prevented a victorious hero from retrieving the cool loot (weapons & armour) off the body of a slain adversary. That won't happen in level 10+ D&D unless the mooks are themselves 8th level Fighters or similar.

Like I said though, I'm not attacking 3e per se, just the demographic prescriptions of the DMG RAW. You can produce something a lot like the Iliad as follows:

1. No arcane magic.

2. Achilles is Fighter-10 (or maybe 12 with Gtr Wpn Spec: Spear). Maybe Hercules is a 15th level Barbarian, but he never reaches Troy.

3. Odysseus is Rog-5/Ftr-4 - quite an effective build, since he gets Weapon Spec + Rogue abilities such as +3d6 sneak attack.

4. Achilles' Myrmidons are all Fighters level 2+.

5. The rest of the spear carriers are Warriors, mostly in the 1-3 range.

If it were 1e, you'd shift the levels of the heroes up a bit - check out their levels in 1e Legends & Lore. Of course Fighter progression above 13th (when you got 2 Atts/round) didn't mean much other than +3 hp/level.

 

[Jawar]

Umbran thanks for the tip. A points buy D&D based system is the sort of thing I was looking for.

I will be checking this out.

Me too.
That sounds excellent!

 

[MerricB]

I accept that point buy is more open to abuse but I think it's less likely to be abused unless you have some munchkin or power gamer at work

Err... no. The more options you give, the more likely someone will try to abuse them. Point-buy is a whore that lies down saying "abuse me! abuse me!"

If you want no abuse, go to the strictness of OD&D, where the stats are rolled on 3d6 in order, there are only 3 classes, weapons deal d6 regardless, and the only abusable mechanism is spells (and there aren't many of them).

 

[T. Foster]

If you want no abuse, go to the strictness of OD&D, where the stats are rolled on 3d6 in order, there are only 3 classes, weapons deal d6 regardless, and the only abusable mechanism is spells (and there aren't many of them).

Yeah! Woo-hoo! OD&D FTW!

 

[green slime]

Err... no. The more options you give, the more likely someone will try to abuse them. Point-buy is a whore that lies down saying "abuse me! abuse me!"

Well, um, I can see the analogy, but, I fear for Eric's Grandma...

 

[mirivor]

You have a like-minded gamer. I agree with your post and could add about another 18 pages to it. But these boards are prolly not the place to discuss. We could start a thread in the House Rules section or you can email me at mirivor@gmail.com. Please put "D&D" in the title so I can pick it out of the junk mail. Or post in the house section and PM me. we can debate until we grow old and die.