D&D General The Satanic Panic never really died?

[Harzel]

I'm sick of every jerk and lunatic in this country hiding behind religion to try and escuse their deplorable behavior

Does checking your daughter’s Christmas wish list and worrying that she might be losing her way count as ‘deplorable’? It’s getting difficult to keep up.

Just as I was about to castigate you, @Bawylie, for taking too negative a view of what people were expressing in the thread, that happens.

Still, I think it's better to point out those individually when the attitude seems unmistakable than to paint with the broad brush you started out with. Because it seems to me at least that all @Morrus did was to post a news item, and the vast majority of replies have not been about condemning the mother.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Ok, fine, at the risk of greater controversy I was making reference to Connecticut because Salem was the site of the most famous occult scare in the history of the United States, and linking that history of intolerance which is relevant to the current thread, to the present equally well intention-ed but misguided attempts by that state to protect the public from undesirable speech with laws like CT Gen Stat 53-37 that criminalize ridicule - despite such a law probably not passing Constitutional muster under past interpretations by the SCOTUS of compelling interest. Because that's just how my autistic head works, and my assumption is that there is some nerd out there that will get all my obscure references, have a chuckle about it, without having to get in some lame political argument.

I got it, but then I nerd out to various legal blogs. It was pretty obscure, though.

 

[Harzel]

"We all know" lots of things to be true, contrary to religious assertions. That doesn't get us very far.

Do people really think that appealing to reason will disabuse someone of their religious notions?

So just so we can be clear about what is, or is not being said - are you contending that the assertions, "People playing D&D are engaged in occult practices." and "Playing D&D increases the likelihood of becoming wiccan." are religious assertions?

 

[Bawylie]

Just as I was about to castigate you, @Bawylie, for taking too negative a view of what people were expressing in the thread, that happens.

Still, I think it's better to point out those individually when the attitude seems unmistakable than to paint with the broad brush you started out with. Because it seems to me at least that all @Morrus did was to post a news item, and the vast majority of replies have not been about condemning the mother.

That’s a fair perspective.

I’ll offer that my initial post that I started out with addressed exactly one post. The first one.

Since then we’ve had, I feel, a fairly productive discussion. If you feel, or if I have caused you to feel, personally attacked, then I apologize.

 

[Harzel]

I think, though, if you wanted this thread to come up with Enworld’s best, most thoughtful and helpful advice for the daughter, you might’ve asked for that when linking to the tweet in the first place.

I suppose I should let @Morrus speak for himself, but I doubt that his intent in posting the item was that narrow. Moreover, I don't think that it is incumbent on the person who starts a thread to ensure the good behavior of those who respond.

 

[Ovinomancer]

So just so we can be clear about what is, or is not being said - are you contending that the assertions, "People playing D&D are engaged in occult practices." and "Playing D&D increases the likelihood of becoming wiccan." are religious assertions?

There's a lot of focus on if occult things are actually happening. Let's say they absolutely aren't. Does it make it okay to engage in pretending to do occult things because it's just pretend? That's harder, especially when the belief is centered on morality (which you don't have to agree with to acknowledge).

This construct can be tested by swapping in other things for the occult. Is it okay to pretend murder? Theft? Rape? All of these carry different emotional and moral baggage, but it should be obvious that tge ick factor is going to be largely personal for each.

(My answers: I'm ok with it, ok with it, not okay with it.)

 

[Harzel]

That’s a fair perspective.

I’ll offer that my initial post that I started out with addressed exactly one post. The first one.

Oh, ok, that's an interesting clarification.

Since then we’ve had, I feel, a fairly productive discussion.

Hmm. Ok. To me, it has seemed to have a good deal of people talking past each other, and, unfortunately, some misunderstanding/misrepresentation.

If you feel, or if I have caused you to feel, personally attacked, then I apologize.

No, not at all. But thank you.

But back to your first point - do you still think that the main thrust of the OP was to ridicule Mom?

 

[Bawylie]

I suppose I should let @Morrus speak for himself, but I doubt that his intent in posting the item was that narrow. Moreover, I don't think that it is incumbent on the person who starts a thread to ensure the good behavior of those who respond.

Generally I’d agree.

Except in this case, this site belongs to Morrus. He sets the rules, moderates the content and participants pursuant to those rules, and from time to time issues bans, etc.

He’s the chief shot caller (I think). So I’d say he has some responsibility or has assumed some responsibility for some part of what’s allowable. And it’s not unreasonable for someone to take cues from his posts as to what conduct is permitted.

Special case, IMO.

 

[Morrus]

This construct can be tested by swapping in other things for the occult. Is it okay to pretend murder? Theft? Rape? All of these carry different emotional and moral baggage, but it should be obvious that tge ick factor is going to be largely personal for each.

Those things exist and happen to real people. We’re talking about fictional magic, and nobody has ever been magic missiled. And while I’m OK with anybody deciding for themselves what their own limits are regarding fictional things like magic (while reserving the right to have my own opinion on that), I very much sympathise with the daughter who is having to deal with somebody else’s beliefs. I hope she finds a good solution to this problem.

I myself had to defend my hobby to my parents; we were a Catholic family (I, as I’m sure you know, am not religious), and my mum in particular believed some of what she heard. She banned me from playing for some time, and had newspaper clippings in a drawer about D&D satanic rituals. We had to persuade her to sit in on a game to realise it was just a bunch of nerds making Monty Python jokes. This question on Twitter struck a chord with me, as I went through the exact same thing.

 

[Harzel]

There's a lot of focus on if occult things are actually happening. Let's say they absolutely aren't. Does it make it okay to engage in pretending to do occult things because it's just pretend? That's harder, especially when the belief is centered on morality (which you don't have to agree with to acknowledge).

This construct can be tested by swapping in other things for the occult. Is it okay to pretend murder? Theft? Rape? All of these carry different emotional and moral baggage, but it should be obvious that tge ick factor is going to be largely personal for each.

(My answers: I'm ok with it, ok with it, not okay with it.)

Good point and interesting questions. But that's a greatly different discussion from what it would be if we're talking about how to treat assertions of fact, and the reason I asked the question was that those two kinds of things seemed to be getting muddled together in the discussion.