D&D General The Satanic Panic never really died?

[Xenonnonex]

Frankly everyone should chill the F out of this thread. There are better ways of spending your time.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Yet the adultress being forgiven was referenced in the 300s and was quite accepted in a majority of manuscripts since. Seems to me the evidence for it at this point while not 100% is significantly stronger than the evidence against it.

There is no non-confessional biblical scholar who accepts that the Pericope Adulterae is original to GJohn. It's like the long ending of Mark - a later insertion.

 

[Ratskinner]

What you are quoting isn't history or truth - it's the world through @Garthanos perceptions - which are quite hostile toward religion.

I don't want to get into a big discussion about it here, but you do realize that the bible itself references some of the changes that @Garthanos is talking about, right? I mean, a decent number of "history"* stories in the old testament are about the religious conflicts within the Hebrew community. We usually only get to hear the victorious side's perspective, but that's just par for the course, AFAICT.

*the quotes are because what we would call "history" in modern times wasn't a thing back then. For anybody, AFAIK.

 

[Shiroiken]

Stupid people are always going to be stupid. You're not going to change their minds, just as they're not gonna change yours. Best not to engage IMO. I once made the mistake of pointing out the various spells in AD&D that were taken directly from biblical figures, such as sticks-to-snakes and part water (both by Moses), and was immediately called a heretic by my youth pastor.

I'm a children's librarian. I still have children coming to me regularly (more than weekly) who are forbidden to read Harry Potter or other fantasy series because it teaches "real witchcraft." For the same reason, I avoid running D&D games in our game nights here.

It's sad, but you're wise not to do anything that might endanger your job. Parents have the right to raise their kids the way they want... even if we think it's insane.

 

[Yaarel]

When people have honest disagreements, there are gentle ways to disagree.

Stand up for what one oneself believes, and leave room for others to come to their own conclusions.

 

[Zardnaar]

More lies and more disparaging of religion

The church as such fragmented in the 2nd century and ended up growing to 180 sects.

Look up arrianism, it was a thing in the 3rd and 4th century. They didn't have a unified Bible or liturgy.

The church as such was unified in 325 AD but there were still problems heading into the 7th century that were largely rendered moot via Islamic expansion.

The churches fragmented again in the 11th century into what's now the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

The Copts, Nestorians and Ethiopian traditions predate the 325 Council of Nicea.

 

[FrogReaver]

Just so it's clear what I'm objecting to -

The entire rest of the game? Like it did for every sane mother who actually looked at it during that era instead of listening to some fear monger.

Disparages any religious mother who looked at the game and still believed it was an issue by calling her not sane.

When you are taught that you can implore in a poetically phrased fashion while clasping your hands in an appropriate gesture to achieve miraculous supernatural intervention in your everyday life. You may be right the entirety of the game may well freak you out. Even if they include no incantations or gestures.

Disparages anyone who believes in prayer. Further mischaracterizing how prayer is believed to work by attempting to insinuate it's a type of magical belief.

Magic beliefs include the "word" is the thing how you treat the one is how you treat the other. Relates to the pseudoscience of homeopathy although the latter is pretty explicitly the magic rule of contagion or association.

Dispargaes religion by calling it's association of a demon in the religion to a demon in D&D that uses the same name as magical.

Thou shalt not have other gods before me... it was acknowledged that other gods were real in the original stories. Monotheistic denial of the others reality has been a gradual add on.

Disparages religion by insuniating sincerely held religious beliefs were an addition that wasn't original present.

Yhwh had a wife named Asheerah whose temples were active as recent as 240 BCE stories change. I mean the great story of not being the one to judge ie throwing stones wasn't in any version (that we have recorded) before the 600s CE (I think that was the dates).

Disparages religion by insinuating that his beliefs on the subject are correct and other sincerely held religious beliefs are incorrect.

[/QUOTE]

The early jewish magical beliefs included a Golem spell where you breath life into a clay thing. (This is how Yhwh created humans)

D&D having Golems is a rather religious magic excerpt

Disparages religion by equating the story of God creating man to magic.

It was from a fairly significant professor of archeology and he basically said that the problem of things being suppressed or atleast Asheerah being suppressed is no longer an issue but this is a change within our life time) it does not alter the impact that religious money had on archeology for generations. There was a Yhwh who was a Canaanite god a member of a Pantheon of gods their king. The Elohim was a plural word for a reason. And sure I am sure the priesthood of judea who do not even now let women be in positions of authority in their church did indeed declare Asheerah a false god.

Disparages religion by insinuating that all of Christianity has it wrong about who the God they believe in is.

So many things suddenly declared heresy that had been accepted for hundreds of years.

Disparages religion by stating that the creation of the religious book caused otherwise accepted practices to become heresy.

 

[FrogReaver]

The church as such fragmented in the 2nd century and ended up growing to 180 sects.

Look up arrianism, it was a thing in the 3rd and 4th century. They didn't have a unified Bible or liturgy.

The church as such was unified in 325 AD but there were still problems heading into the 7th century that were largely rendered moot via Islamic expansion.

The churches fragmented again in the 11th century into what's now the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

The Copts, Nestorians and Ethiopian traditions predate the 325 Council of Nicea.

Unbiased facts. Finally some actually history. Wonder how long it's going to take @Garthanos to put his anti religion spin on these facts.

 

[Zardnaar]

Unbiased facts. Finally some actually history. Wonder how long it's going to take @Garthanos to put his anti religion spin on these facts.

I just don't care lol. Worship what you like (or nothing).

Realistically you're not going to change their mind if they hate D&D. They're not going to change yours.

Thank them for the free publicity and making D&D go mainstream.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Just so it's clear what I'm objecting to -



Disparages any religious mother who looked at the game and still believed it was an issue by calling her not sane.



Disparages anyone who believes in prayer. Further mischaracterizing how prayer is believed to work by attempting to insinuate it's a type of magical belief.



Dispargaes religion by calling it's association of a demon in the religion to a demon in D&D that uses the same name as magical.



Disparages religion by insuniating sincerely held religious beliefs were an addition that wasn't original present.



Disparages religion by insinuating that his beliefs on the subject are correct and other sincerely held religious beliefs are incorrect.


Disparages religion by equating the story of God creating man to magic.



Disparages religion by insinuating that all of Christianity has it wrong about who the God they believe in is.



Disparages religion by stating that the creation of the religious book caused otherwise accepted practices to become heresy.

None of that is what you’re accusing him of.

You’re being reactionary and disruptive for no reason.

 

[FrogReaver]

There is no non-confessional biblical scholar who accepts that the Pericope Adulterae is original to GJohn. It's like the long ending of Mark - a later insertion.

@Zardnaar - Notice the difference between what you posted and this. You listed a bunch of facts with no spin - simply historical events. This is not a fact - it's just spin.

 

[FrogReaver]

None of that is what you’re accusing him of.

You’re being reactionary and disruptive for no reason.

He said all those things. All those things were disparaging to religion. If I talked that way about any other topic I would be banned.

 

[Azzy]

Disparages religion by

That's a whole lot of "if you don't talk about religion in glowing terms or you acknowledge archeological facts then you're disparaging religion".

 

[doctorbadwolf]

He said all those things. All those things were disparaging to religion. If I talked that way about any other topic I would be banned.

No, they weren’t, and no, you wouldn’t.

 

[Zardnaar]

@Zardnaar - Notice the difference between what you posted and this. You listed a bunch of facts with no spin - simply historical events. This is not a fact - it's just spin.

I'm more big picture. Some things are purely subjective and what you believe in and what RPG game you like are 2 of them.

 

[FrogReaver]

That's a whole lot of "if you don't talk about religion in glowing terms or you acknowledge archeological facts then you're disparaging religion".

That was never said or implied.

When you refer to sincerely held religious beliefs as magic that's disparaging and that's just 1 example of something that was done multiple times. When you call those who do something based on sincerely held religious opinions "not sane" that's disparaging.

I think your position is that if religion is demanded to be spoken of as respectfully as other controversial topics here that you think that's unacceptable.

 

[FrogReaver]

No, they weren’t, and no, you wouldn’t.

Shall I prove you wrong?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Shall I prove you wrong?

Go ahead, bud. You’ll fail, and likely get banned for crossing lines Garth was nowhere near, but that isn’t my problem.

 

[FrogReaver]

Go ahead, bud. You’ll fail, and likely get banned for crossing lines Garth was nowhere near, but that isn’t my problem.

Welp that makes this whole exercise futile. You won't acknowledge it even if it does happen.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Welp that makes this whole exercise futile. You won't acknowledge it even if it does happen.

I really don’t care. You’re making something outta nothing. Garth didn’t disparage religion, he noted some pretty commonly discussed changes in “Judeo-Christian” beliefs over the centuries.