D&D General The Satanic Panic never really died?

[Xenonnonex]

Generally I’d agree.

Except in this case, this site belongs to Morrus. He sets the rules, moderates the content and participants pursuant to those rules, and from time to time issues bans, etc.

He’s the chief shot caller (I think). So I’d say he has some responsibility or has assumed some responsibility for some part of what’s allowable. And it’s not unreasonable for someone to take cues from his posts as to what conduct is permitted.

Special case, IMO.

Funny thing about that. Morrus does not run a dictatorship. And he should not be held accountable for what free thinking adults say.

I am all for personal beliefs. But to actively enforce those beliefs and actually harmful personal beliefs on others is something I draw the line on. If her mother is coming from a good place good on her. But there is a better way of expressing it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Those things exist and happen to real people. We’re talking about fictional magic, and nobody has ever been magic missiled. And while I’m OK with anybody deciding for themselves what their own limits are regarding fictional things like magic (while reserving the right to have my own opinion on that), I very much sympathise with the daughter who is having to deal with somebody else’s beliefs. I hope she finds a good solution to this problem.

It's a first world problem.

My mother doesn't want to buy me D_D books as a gift. Personally I'm grateful for any gift.

Some cultures are more hard core about fake magic including prison terms for things like horoscopes.

Mother doesn't like daughter playing D&D based on religious beliefs. Annoying but understandable.

If the daughters not an adult it's her right as a mother.

If they're both adults she has the right to play D&D and the mother has the right to not buy it for whatever reason she sees fit. It's a stupid reason IMHO but a perfectly valid one.

My father became born again for a year or two and tried taking away some albums (Skid Row and Poison Flesh and blood). Annoying and it didn't work ( got told to F off).

 

[Zardnaar]

Funny thing about that. Morrus does not run a dictatorship. And he should not be held accountable for what free thinking adults say.

I am all for personal beliefs. But to actively enforce those beliefs and actually harmful personal beliefs on others is something I draw the line on. If her mother is coming from a good place good on her. But there is a better way of expressing it.

Daughters free to tell her to sod off, mother just doesn't want to buy it.

If she has taken away the books that's different (unless the daughter is not an adult).

 

[Morrus]

It's a first world problem.

My mother doesn't want to buy me D_D books as a gift. Personally I'm grateful for any gift.

Some cultures are more hard core about fake magic including prison terms for things like horoscopes.

Mother doesn't like daughter playing D&D based on religious beliefs. Annoying but understandable.

If the daughters not an adult it's her right as a mother.

If they're both adults she has the right to play D&D and the mother has the right to not buy it for whatever reason she sees fit. It's a stupid reason IMHO but a perfectly valid one.

My father became born again for a year or two and tried taking away some albums (Skid Row and Poison Flesh and blood). Annoying and it didn't work ( got told to F off).

That’s not really how family dynamics work. It’s not about rights.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah. Sometimes they land on the good numbers.

Three crits in a row, it could happen...

That’s fair

Good. It is for this community, too.

That’s a decent part of why I still post here.

So just so we can be clear about what is, or is not being said - are you contending that the assertions, "People playing D&D are engaged in occult practices." and "Playing D&D increases the likelihood of becoming wiccan." are religious assertions?

Can’t speak for others, but I’d contend that, yes.

The assertion is that pretending to engage in idolatry and witchcraft “invites the devil in”, and opens one up to genuine influence.

Also, many religious folk (not just Christians) believe that thinking/fantasizing about doing something sinful is, itself, sinful. So pretending to summon demons and worship falls gods and call upon spirits to curse your enemies are sins, from that perspective, just like imagining sleeping with someone out of marriage or fantasizing about murder.

Don’t ask me how this all squares with acting, because I’ve no idea.

But, it’s certainly grounded in religious assertions about the nature of the activity in question.

 

[Bohandas]

Point is, DnD magic isn't real. Everybody knows that but apparently not that lady. Heck, even when a spell has a verbal or somatic component the book doesn't tell you what it actually is, just that it exists. They could be Nickleback Lyrics for all we know. Meaning that even if you wanted to use DnD as some sort of occult manual, it wouldn't get you far.

This is a good point. There is, however, a SINGLE sort-of exception: The "Pact Magic" section of the 3.5e Tome of Magic draws heavily from the 17th century grimoire Ars Goetia, and in particular most of the names of the vestiges and most of the pact magic binding diagrams are reproduced from the AG exactly. That said, while it has the binding seals it still, as you says, lacks any sort of vocal component (and those that it implies are radically different from the ritual in AG, in that they can be done daily whereas the AG ritual calls for weeks of prep time)

 

[Zardnaar]

That’s not really how family dynamics work.

Can in some countries.

Are people arguing the mother should be forced to buy the books?

Imposing beliefs goes both ways. If the mother doesn't want to buy the books it's no big deal IMHO.

Daughters free to buy the books and play, mother's free to not buy the books and not play. Both win yes?

Such a mother would probably be annoying but all parents can be. Mine didn't care because I spent my money on D&D instead of booze, cigarettes and pot.

Some religious types have issues with D&D others don't.

 

[Harzel]

So just so we can be clear about what is, or is not being said - are you contending that the assertions, "People playing D&D are engaged in occult practices." and "Playing D&D increases the likelihood of becoming wiccan." are religious assertions?

Can’t speak for others, but I’d contend that, yes.

Based on what you say next, I think, maybe, you meant, "no, but I'm going to change the subject".

EDIT: Oh, wait, I think I missed something about what you said.

The assertion is that pretending to engage in idolatry and witchcraft “invites the devil in”, and opens one up to genuine influence.

Also, many religious folk (not just Christians) believe that thinking/fantasizing about doing something sinful is, itself, sinful. So pretending to summon demons and worship falls gods and call upon spirits to curse your enemies are sins, from that perspective, just like imagining sleeping with someone out of marriage or fantasizing about murder.

Yes, as I noted in my response to @Ovinomancer, that is an interesting, but different discussion. I accept that the assertion you made is a religious assertion (or could be, which is good enough).

But the distinction is important, as demonstrated by @Morrus' post about his personal experience. In that instance the answer to the factual question was, apparently, decisive. In other instances, perhaps the family in the OP, perhaps not, the objection may not distinguish between actual occult practices and pretending. However, I still think it is critical to the discussion to be clear which kind of assertion one is addressing.

More EDIT: Your second assertion (bolded) is definitely (to me) a religious assertion because 'sin' is defined by religion. Your first assertion (underlined) is quite interesting because you might consider it equivalent to "Playing D&D increases the likelihood of becoming wiccan." However, I intended that assertion as something that was testable, in a statistical sense. But I can see that if you thought it meant the same thing as your first assertion, then you weren't changing the subject. Sorry.

 

[pogre]

I run a high school D&D club in a conservative, mid-western, small town. The fact that I can run that club with pretty much unqualified support from the school board and administration speaks volumes about how far we have come.

The Christians I have talked to locally who have concerns about young people playing D&D do not view playing D&D as occult practice, but something that opens the door to occult practice. I have actually had very polite and productive discussions on the topic with a couple of local pastors.

 

[Undrave]

The first few years I had my own dice, but it's been like that for a bit more than 35 years now. I don't see it changing

Booh you're no fun.