The whole POINT of 3.5 (that everyone is missing)

[Emiricol]

The books aren't for you. <snip>

~M.

I give this troll 3 stars. It suffers from a lack of really original content, but does present an old argument in a semi-new light. Penalty also for being very clearly a troll. It receives bonuses for the fact that I agree with it and this is my review. Bonuses as well for having more than one paragraph, and completely avoiding the use of l33t-speak.

Thus, 3 stars. You heard it here first, folks!

 

[Henry]

They didn't lie to Cook. They simply changed business plans in the time since he left... It's simple enough, Monte Cook isn't as in the loop as he used to be at Wizards. Plans change.

Absolutely. Monte alludes to this very fact in the review.

I work in a service-oriented corporation, and I can tell you that even WITHOUT turnover at the middle and top levels, plans change significantly in a few years' time. The things we do now to keep customers happy, to drive sales, and to improve the overall quality of product were totally undreamt of back when I started here.

 

[nute]

Re: Re: The whole POINT of 3.5 (that everyone is missing)

That's a new one on me, nute. Did you make that up or is it commonly used somewhere? You've got me curious...

Mostly a conversational quirk that two of my techie-oriented roommates share.

"How much was the phone bill again?"
"$BIGNUM."
"And with our $20 credit?"
"Still $BIGNUM."
"Bogus."

 

[Michael Tree]

They didn't lie to Cook. They simply changed business plans in the time since he left.

It would probably be more accurate to say that they changed management, and the business plan changed with it. WotC is run by completely different people now than when 3.0 came out.

It's extremely common in the business world for new management to completely change strategies when they come into control. This, combined with high management turnover, is a major reason why businesses don't create long term strategies.

 

[Henry]

Newbie: "Great, thanks. Mind if I look around? Hmmm... Oh, wow... Look at all these cool books... And these are all for this game, right?"

Game store owner: *tugs collar* "Welllll... sort of, but you see, this is a NEW version of the game, so all these things don't mesh 100% with it..."

Newbie: "Oh..."

This is a store owner, right?

--------------
Newbie: "Great, thanks. Mind if I look around? Hmmm... Oh, wow... Look at all these cool books... And these are all for this game, right?"

Game store owner: "Sure! Now, see these books here? (points to the splat books and the FRCS) They just revised the game a little bit, and pulled some of the stuff in those into the basic game, and don't get me wrong, cause there's still some neat stuff in those, but the rest of these (points to Arms and Equipment, Ghostwalk, a buncha d20 books) are meant for the game, too."

He didn't lie - most of the d20 stuff released in the past year will work with the new books, and he clearly warns the new gamer of some minor overlap between the new books and some of the older stuff. But the poor salesperson hems and haws when asked a question. Looking thoughtful is fine - being enthusiastic is fine, but uncertainty and low enthusiasm are the Unforgiveable Sins.

 

[nsruf]

Re: Re: Re: The whole POINT of 3.5 (that everyone is missing)

I think that's the point though. He's saying for those that already have the 3.0, you can get the SRD.

I haven't seen the new books, but hopefully they are more intuitive. The 3.0 books were tossed in a closet because reading them was just not worthwhile for me.

And having to cross-index these books with a bare-bones SRD won't be fast or easy, either. (Although I never found the layout of the 3.0 books that bad - as soon as I know where something is, the actual order doesn't matter that much. ) I still think the SRD in either incarnation is messy to use for actual play, with or without some of the books around.

 

[MThibault]

While I don't agree that the primary purpose of 3.5 is to bring new players to the game, I do think that the 3.5 books are a better introduction to the game than the 3.0 book.

The PHB has the same layout, but all of those complaints about incomprehensible AoO and Grapple rules have been addressed. Charging has been clarified (and limited) and there is actually a specific and explicit definition of what used to be known as a Partial Charge. The combat section is very novice-friendly.

The DMG has a better layout. It starts out with basic advice about what the game is, what a DM does, and generally how it is done. The example of play is in the first chapter. Also near the beginning are fundamental core rules that aren't in the PHB -- XP! All of those variant rules for character creation and behind the curtain stuff comes much later, after the reader is (presumably) more comfortable with the fundamentals of the game.

Now, did they get a bit overzealous when they started "fixing" things? IMO yes. Did they think they they were doing us a favor? Yes, probably even the business people think they are giving us a better product for the same money. Business people think like that, apparently.

I'm still digesting what I'm going to take from 3.5 and what I'm going to keep from 3.0. But there is definitely a lot of good stuff that I will use. That being said, if your game has been running smoothly don't disrupt it by trying to force *any* new product in where it doesn't fit (this includes fully compatible 3.0 sourcebooks). I would suggest treating 3.5 like you would Tome of Horrors or the Quintessential Elf. If you are looking for upgrades or whatever, then this is the product for you, otherwise, stick with what you have.

Cheers

PS I hope that publishers start using some sort of phrase to identify and distinguish 3.0 compatible material from 3.5. "Fully compatible with the revised edition of the world's most popular fantasy RPG" will do the trick.

MT

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: Re: The whole POINT of 3.5 (that everyone is missing)

All of this implies that this revision is directed at existing players who want changes made to the game.

All of this implies that the marketing on the website is directed at existing players who want changes made to the game.

Which only makes sense. The casual browser isn't going to stumble onto the WOTC D&D page and say 'gadzooks! I must own this game!'

I'm curious to know what kind of marketing WOTC is doing outside of the current players. Where are they advertising? What are the ads like?

J

 

[Kerrwyn]

Re: Re: The whole POINT of 3.5 (that everyone is missing)

I give this troll 3 stars.

Hardly a troll. He actually came back and posted again in his own topic. Anyway, I agree with you, nute. mostly. My only problem with that is while it may be aimed at new gamers, WotC could hardly ignore the fact that releasing new books would force everyone who has to have their gaming crack fix to go out and preorder the set. So, I think it's 50% at newbies and 50% at us vets.

 

[Belen]

Nute,

You're pretty wrong, dude. I do not know about anyone else, but the 3e release had a lot more outside hype (interviews on NPR etc). 3.5 has NOT been targeted to the newbies. It has been targeted to the experienced crowd.

Pull up one bit of marketing to support your idea that 3.5 is targeted to newbies. The sad fact is that they have been marketing it to us for months now.

Dave