The YAARGH Armor Revision

[seasong]

I am displeased with the armor-wearing feats, especially since one can theoretically change whether or not you know how to wear a particular type of armor by making it out of mithral.

I am displeased with the fact that heavy armor, despite immensely greater costs, is only marginally better, and even then only in certain situations and in certain ways.

I am displeased with the fact that the armor weights don't even come close to what little I know of reality, and the costs seem designed to bedevil me with questions.

I also find myself moderately miffed at the selection of art for armor in the PHB, the lack of damage reduction, and the paucity of options available for non-magically enhancing one's protective sheath.

Below is my broad attempt to revise the rules in a way that makes sense to me. Some of it is undoubtedly possessed of errors, so I would appreciate comments. Also, any ideas for other ways to mundanely enhance armor would be appreciated.

Yet Another Armor Revision, Good Heavens (YAARGH)

Armor Types

Armor is broken into Flexible, Semi-rigid and Rigid.

Flexible armor can typically be worn by anyone, and is roughly equivalent to very heavy clothing. Mail is the ultimate expression (and heaviest) of pre-modern flexible armor, but is generally too heavy for consideration by most spellcasters, rogues and bards. Flexible armor replaces the Light Armor Proficiency feat.

Semi-rigid armor is still reasonably flexible, but adds stiff segments and thicker joints to improve protection with sacrificing terribly much agility. Except for mail, most battle field armors are semi-rigid, offering the best blend of protection and speed. Semi-rigid armor replaces the Medium Armor Proficiency feat.

Rigid armor is maximized protection, covering each body part as thoroughly as possible and sacrificing additional mobility for heavy plates, protected joints and a reinforcing structure. This is the extreme end, so there is only one base armor that is rigid: plate armor. Rigid armor replaces the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat.

Barbarians, bards, rogues and others limited to "light" armor for certain special abilities are now limited to "flexible" armor.

Armor Check, Max Dex and Spell Failure

The following is an optional set of rules. The armor check, max Dex and spell failure are precalculated (in the basic armors section) if you prefer not to mess with this stuff.

Your base check penalty is +0 for flexible armor, -1 for semi-rigid armor, and -2 for rigid armor.

If the armor is 5 lbs or less, reduce the check penalty by 1 (so 3 lbs of semi-rigid armor would have a check penalty of +0). If the armor is 6-10 lbs, leave the check penalty as is. For each doubling thereafter, increase the check penalty by 1 (so 40 lbs of semi-rigid armor would have a check penalty of -3).

A positive check penalty is treated as +0.

The Max DEX bonus for armor is equal to 10 + twice the check penalty. So a check penalty of -3 results in a Max DEX bonus of 4.

The spell failure percentage is equal to 5% per check penalty. So a check penalty of -3 results in a spell failure 15%.

Strength, Size and Armor Check Penalties: The system doesn't normally account for the impact strength or size has on how limiting armor is. If you would prefer that it did, use the following rules of thumb:

Size
Fine: treat weight as x16 for check penalties
Diminutive: treat weight as x8 for check penalties
Tiny: treat weight as x4 for check penalties
Small: treat weight as x2 for check penalties
Large: treat weight as x1/2 for check penalties
Huge: treat weight as x1/4 for check penalties
Gargantuan: treat weight as x1/8 for check penalties
Collossal: treat weight as x1/16 for check penalties

Strength
1: treat weight as x8 for check penalties
2: treat weight as x4 for check penalties
3-5: treat weight as x2 for check penalties
6-14: x1
15-19: x1/2
20-24: x1/4
25-29: x1/8
per +5: x1/2 more

Example: A gargantuan giant with STR 30 would multiply the armor weight by 1/128 when calculating armor check penalty. So if the armor weighed 2,560 lbs, it would count as 20 lbs (-1 check).

Basic Armors

[color=skyblue][u]Armor           Type   AC   DR   Wt   GP    CHK  DEX   Arcane[/u]
Cloth           Flex   +1   0/-  10   1     +0   +10   0%
Soft Leather    Flex   +1   1/-  20   5     -1   +8    5%
  Studded       Flex   +2   1/-  25   10    -1   +8    5%
Hide            Semi   +2   1/-  30   2     -3   +4    15%
  Studded       Semi   +3   1/-  35   7     -3   +4    15%
Leather Plate   Semi   +2   2/-  30   15    -3   +4    15%
  Studded       Semi   +3   2/-  35   20    -3   +4    15%
Mail            Flex   +3   2/-  40   30    -2   +6    10%
Scale           Semi   +3   3/-  40   40    -3   +4    15%
Segmented Plate Semi   +4   3/-  60   60    -4   +2    20%
Plate           Rigid  +4   4/-  65   200   -5   +1*   30%

* as has been pointed out, a +0 is kind of ridiculous[/color]

Note on pricing: The pricing above assumes a reasonably skilled crafter who works on the armor for the amount of time indicated in the core rulebooks (using the core rulebook prices); and an amount of raw materials as indicated by the armor's weight (rather than the "half sale value" equation). This is the minimum sale price that would still be profitable to the artisan in a sensible economy, rather than the actual price an adventurer might expect to pay. King's Taxes on sales, merchant markup, guild-controlled profit rates (and quality!), import costs for distant armorers, can all add up to higher prices. Plate, in particular, can be driven to sky high prices by the competitive desires of the nobility, as well as the travel costs to make sure it is appropriately fitted to the noble for whom it is made.

However, this may all be more complicated than one might prefer. As an alternative, here are prices which are game-balanced in accordance with the core rulebooks, rather than economically derived:

Cloth: 5 gp
Leather: 10 gp (studded 15 gp)
Hide: 15 gp (studded 20 gp)
Leather Plate: 40 gp (studded 45 gp)
Mail: 50 gp
Scale: 150 gp
Segmented Plate: 250 gp
Plate: 600 gp (note that 'full plate' would be 'masterwork plate')

Mundane Modifications

Studded: Leather and hide armors can be enhanced with flat metal studs sewn into their surface to make glancing blows more likely to "glance". Studs add +1 AC and +5 lbs, and cost +5 GP.

Spiked: Spikes can be added to any armor. They deal 1d6 points of piercing damage (X2 crit) with a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If a character is not proficient with them, the character suffers a -4 penalty on grapple checks when trying to use them. A regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) can be made with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. Spikes subtract -1 AC, add +10 lbs, and cost +20 GP (mostly labor).

Fitted: Armor can be fitted to a character, to better suit his movements. Fitted armor only counts as fitted for the person it was fitted for, but this can be changed by a competent armorer with one day per base armor check penalty. Fitted armor costs 1 GP per day required to "fit" it, and reduces the final armor check penalty by 1 point.

Masterwork: Masterwork armor is maximized in efficiency and grace of design; the maker has crafted it with utmost attention to each detail of armor design. Treat as fitted (for anyone that can wear the armor), reduce weight by 20%, and triple the final cost.

Size: Each size smaller than Medium quarters weight and cost. Each size larger than Medium quadruples weight and cost. Note that a Large Masterwork armor is a total of x12 cost (the multipliers are applied separately).

Torso Only: Armor which only covers the torso reduces AC by -1, and reduces weight and cost by 40%.

No Helmet: Armor with no helmet reduces AC by -1, and reduces weight and cost by 10%. Torso only armor with no helmet has a total reduction of -2 AC, and reduces weight and cost by a total of 50%.

Plated: Metal armors can be plated in another metal, usually tin, silver or gold, to make them more attractive and flashy. Tin costs 25 gp; silver costs 100 gp; gold costs 1,000 gp. This cost is affected normally by size, torso only and no helmet modifiers, but is not affected by any other modifications.

Exceptional Materials

Generic: This is a "universal" modifier; individual campaigns may have specific exceptional materials which vary from this formula. By default, however, exceptional materials halve the weight of the armor and multiplies the final price by x5. A Large Masterwork armor made of exceptional materials will cost x60 (the multipliers are applied separately). For example, mithral, masterwork plate armor would have these stats: (Rigid, AC +4, DR 4/-, 40 lbs, 3,000 GP) (CHK -3). This can be applied to any armor (silk for cloth armor, basilisk skin for 'studded' soft leather, and so on).

Non-generic Example: Fire Silk: Fire silk is made from the coccoons of a silkwyrm (a Large burrowing insect vaguely resembling a caterpillar with a triceratops skull) found only in the Burning Desert. The silk is difficult to aquire, but highly valued. Aside from being used in the dresses of court, it can also be used as part of the padded cloth worn under virtually all armor types. It can be added, aftermarket, to any armor - it costs 2,000 GP, reduces the armor's weight by 5 lbs, and provides Fire Resistance 10.

 

[Angcuru]

Impressive. I'll look it over more throughly when I get more time to do so.

 

[seasong]

Edit above: fixed the basic armor list as a chart, so that you can compare the various armors at a glance.

Note that ALL armors are cheaper - this is because I used a rough estimate of days of labor (at various skill ranks/levels required for the armor types) and cost of materials (based on armor weight). The average commoner lives on copper and silver, so most of those costs are obscene, although they don't look like much to people that make a living wiping out entire orc communities.

If you want the prices more in line with the PHB, feel free to set them how you want. Full plate armor is essentially "masterwork plate armor" here, so the price for plate armor should be about 500 GP.

 

[IndyPendant]

Umm...I will look at it later when I have more time as well, but one question comes immediately to mind: a 1st-level char can easily afford Segmented Plate--which, while providing only +3 AC, provides a Damage Reduction of 4! Many 1st-level creatures would be completely unable to damage the PC--and most would do at most 1d6 damage, giving them a 1-in-3 chance of damaging the PC *if* the mob hits--and even then, only does 1-2 points damage.

Seems rather powerful in my mind; what are your thoughts?

 

[Angcuru]

Umm...I will look at it later when I have more time as well, but one question comes immediately to mind: a 1st-level char can easily afford Segmented Plate--which, while providing only +3 AC, provides a Damage Reduction of 4! Many 1st-level creatures would be completely unable to damage the PC--and most would do at most 1d6 damage, giving them a 1-in-3 chance of damaging the PC *if* the mob hits--and even then, only does 1-2 points damage.

Seems rather powerful in my mind; what are your thoughts?

Actually, this works out well IMO. The benefit of the DR us greatly reduced as the character levels up and begins to face harder opponents who laugh at the pitiful 4/-. Very useful at beginner levels, but when you get into the big leagues, you needs an upgrade.

Question with this armor variant system, what about +# enhacements? Would a +# enchantment add only to AC, just to DR, both, or to be determined at time of enchantment?

 

[seasong]

Umm...I will look at it later when I have more time as well, but one question comes immediately to mind: a 1st-level char can easily afford Segmented Plate--which, while providing only +3 AC, provides a Damage Reduction of 4! Many 1st-level creatures would be completely unable to damage the PC--and most would do at most 1d6 damage, giving them a 1-in-3 chance of damaging the PC *if* the mob hits--and even then, only does 1-2 points damage.

Seems rather powerful in my mind; what are your thoughts?

Well, as mentioned (in my second post), these prices are lower than the default D&D balance point. Segmented plate is roughly analgous to banded mail, so could be priced at 250 gp, and that would solve that .

However, I don't think it's really necessary. The usefulness of DR is generally overestimated, I think. A fighter with 12 hit points and DR 4 against a d6 creature can take an average of 24 hits (giving him, essentially, 84 hit points total). However, against a 2d6 creature, the DR only allows him to take 4 hits (giving him, essentially, 28 hit points total). And over 24 hits, a crit (for 2d6 or even 3d6) is not merely likely, but almost unavoidable. It also doesn't protect against energy damage or touch attacks.

And don't forget that the opponent may be wearing armor, too!

Originally posted by Angcuru
Question with this armor variant system, what about +# enhacements? Would a +# enchantment add only to AC, just to DR, both, or to be determined at time of enchantment?

I would apply it to AC. Magically provided DR should, IMO, work like it does for monsters (5/+1, that sort of thing) rather than like physical, material armor.

 

[IndyPendant]

Hmm...I've given it some thought, and I have to say I don't like it as is. Here's why (and sorry if I give offense as I tear apart the idea...) :

1) The cost is too low. I understand what you're saying about monsters still being able to damage the Fighter sometimes--but not enough. What CR 1 or 2 creatures have 2d6 or comparable damage in a single attack, without including Sneak Attacks or Crits? Yet the Fighter can have DR 4 at the start; you'd find yourself tossing in enemies that can bring the Wizard or Rogue down to -10 easily with one strike, just to hurt the Fighter.

Sure, given 10 or more hits (note: hits, *not* attacks), the enemy would finally take out the Fighter--but meanwhile, any Fighter worthy of the name (and large size) is dealing out at least 1d8+3 points of damage every time *he* hits! Even armour doesn't help much there, assuming the enemy is wearing it--and what enemies besides 'bosses' wear greater than Studded Leather against starting chars?

2) The DR is too high for the price. Suddenly, Wizards and Sorcerors are more laughable than they already are at low levels. Fighter PCs will no longer need to fear the spellcaster in the back casting MM behind a shield of minions; each missile will will now do 1d4-3 points of damage. Against a 1st level fighter! Flaming Sphere? 2d6-4. At *3rd* level, with Fireball, the spells finally start to even out. Of course, by then the fighter's 5th level, has incredible HPs, and can handle a few fireballs. And what about Finesse Fighters? Suddenly they're useless too. You've just eliminated the playability of an Evoker, a Finesse-based fighter, most Monks, and the combat ability of most Clerics and Druids in one fell swoop--as well as boosted *hugely* the power of Fighters, Paladins, Clerics, and (to a lesser extent) Barbarians as well. Very very unbalanced in my opinion.

3) The AC is too low, and the Max Dex Bonus too high. Excepting only Plate, all players will want a Dex of 18, since right up to Segmented Plate they get full benefits! Far, far from removing players wanting to max their Dex, you've just supported it, making an already-powerful stat much much more useful. Segmented Plate, the second-highest armour available, provides an AC of only +3, and a Max Dex Bonus of +4?!? Who isn't going to try for the highest Dex possible? Even Plate gives only +4 AC--and +2 Max Dex. And that can easily be increased by using 'special' materials. One of the (few) advantages of Heavy Armour was that you could skimp a bit on Dex and still have a respectable AC. That's out the window now.

I agree that the armour section needs to be adjusted. Broadly, I like the idea of DR for armour, and this is a good first try--but it needs some *serious* rethinking and rebalancing before I would consider trying it in my campaigns...

 

[seasong]

Hmm...I've given it some thought, and I have to say I don't like it as is. Here's why (and sorry if I give offense as I tear apart the idea...) :

Exactly what I'm hoping for. Don't worry about it!

1) The cost is too low.

This point, however, I've already covered (twice now) above . Charge what you want. The cost is not inherent to the revisions. I gave some reasons why, at least in my games, I'm not going to worry about boosting the prices sky high. Heck, just multiply all costs by x3.

2) The DR is too high for the price. Suddenly, Wizards and Sorcerors are more laughable than they already are at low levels. Fighter PCs will no longer need to fear the spellcaster in the back casting MM behind a shield of minions; each missile will will now do 1d4-3 points of damage. Against a 1st level fighter! Flaming Sphere? 2d6-4.

Nuh uh .

I said it before above, DR does not affect energy damage. Magic missile will continue to dish out with the d4+1, flaming sphere will continue to dish out with the 2d6.

This is not a new rule, or something I pulled out of my butt - the rules for damage reduction in the DMG (p.73-74) cover it very adequately. "Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack (such as fire damage from a fire elemental), or energy drains." and also "Magical attacks and energy attacks (even mundane fire) ignore damage reduction." That includes barbarian DR, armor DR, enemy DR, etc.

And what about Finesse Fighters? Suddenly they're useless too.

Why, exactly? Most of the finesse fighters I'm familiar with in local games dish out ugly amounts of damage, just not as much as the strength fighter... and they don't get hit as often.

3) The AC is too low, and the Max Dex Bonus too high. Excepting only Plate, all players will want a Dex of 18, since right up to Segmented Plate they get full benefits! Far, far from removing players wanting to max their Dex, you've just supported it, making an already-powerful stat much much more useful.

Hm, true. I'll think about a fix to this. I wanted an easy equation .

Perhaps max DEX bonus = 10 - twice the Check penalty? (min 0, maybe?)

Really, though, I wish there was some better way of handling DEX max. Maybe something like, a CHK of 0-2 allows full DEX mod (whatever your DEX is); a CHK of 3-5 allows half DEX mod (whatever your DEX is); and a CHK of 6+ allows no DEX mod at all.

I dunno. I'll think about it. Suggestions are also welcome.

 

[green slime]

As costs affect creation times, and in RL, it took around 12 months to create a suit of full armour, from order to finished product...

I agree with the cost being too low.

I also feel that the DR granted here is too high.

I also agree that there is, at present in 3E, no real reason to wear the heavy armour.

So I'm experimenting with Medium armours providing DR1 and Heavy armours DR2.

While tantalized by some of your ideas, I find it is an overly complex system, requiring too many calculations.

Magical effects effects increase/decrease the size of the wearer, requiring recalculation of the armour check penalties? Isn't that going to slow the game down unnecessarily?

 

[seasong]

As costs affect creation times, and in RL, it took around 12 months to create a suit of full armour, from order to finished product...

At what wage? The standard for a crafstman capable of making it is around 3 silver per day (roughly 100 GP for a year's work). And iron costs 1 sp per pound (so 10 GP for 100 lbs of armor). So which part of the system do you want to believe?

Under the standard rules, 50 pounds of plate costs 750 GP in raw materials, but 40 pounds of chainmail only costs 75 GP in raw materials. Those last 10 pounds of metal must be some rare adamantine alloy, eh?

The prices I gave are not balanced by system concerns, but by economic ones. They assume a world with a believable economy, rather than a combat-balanced one. But see below.

I agree with the cost being too low.

As I have stated more than once already, set the cost higher. This is an acknowledged disconnect between your (and IndyPendant's) campaign and mine, and there is a (now thrive repeated) solution: charge what you want.

This system does not in any way, shape or form rely on a particular set of prices. I provided the prices as a courtesy, for comparison with D&D's weird science system of economics, not as a balance point.

And to also repeat, while the prices may be low for your campaign, they seem to hit just the right stride for mine.

I also feel that the DR granted here is too high.

That may be so. Could you comment a bit more on this? While I don't feel that the DR is as useful as you and IndyPendant do, I would be open to examples.

I also agree that there is, at present in 3E, no real reason to wear the heavy armour.

So I'm experimenting with Medium armours providing DR1 and Heavy armours DR2.

I've seen this used elsewhere, and it seemed okay, but ultimately the DR1 and DR2 had minimal to no impact on the game.

While tantalized by some of your ideas, I find it is an overly complex system, requiring too many calculations.

Magical effects effects increase/decrease the size of the wearer, requiring recalculation of the armour check penalties? Isn't that going to slow the game down unnecessarily?

If you decide to use the entirely optional rule for having size/etc., impact the rules, then yes. If you do not choose to use the entirely optional rule, then it will have zero impact on combat speed whatsoever.

For those who do not wish to use the entirely optional rule, I will direct your attention to the pre-calculated CHK column in the armor descriptions, which can be used in lieu of any additional complications I may throw into my own games.

What other calculations do you see?