Too Complicated A Buy-In?

[Herschel]

A new player needs the PHB and a group. A new DM needs the core 3 and a group. Or any new player can pick up the Essentials handbooks and slide onto an Encounters table. *No* new player needs the errata, or even to know what the bloody word means.

How quickly the game has gone from "not enough options! this sucks!" to "too many options! woe! how is a new player *ever* to cope?"

Can I get an amen! This was a bit towards the end of 2E but really hit stride with 3E. As a starting player, find a group, decide what kind of character you'd like to play and get that "PHB". One book contains enough classes and goodies to keep you occupied for a good long time. It's that "gotta have 'em all" mentality that causes the confusion.

 

[Argyle King]

If none of the D&D entry options are to your liking, maybe you should consider looking into other rpgs...?

 

[The Little Raven]

(something that the Red Box and Essentials were both supposed to do, but neither really hits the mark).

The Red Box hits the mark perfectly. It's a bright red box that says in clear letters "STARTER SET." And its contents refer you to the next products to get if you want to continue to play/run the game.

 

[MrGrenadine]

The Red Box hits the mark perfectly. It's a bright red box that says in clear letters "STARTER SET." And its contents refer you to the next products to get if you want to continue to play/run the game.

It may work for you, but there are plenty of folks who think it wasn't a quality product, and therefore not a easy introduction to the game.

Plus, there were so many inconsistencies when it was first released, (which may've been fixed by now), that it confused some issues. Not the best quality for an intro set.

YMMV, of course. No need to beat a dead horse. I see room for improvement. If you and others don't, no worries. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the game will streamline over time, and I'll be happy when that happens.

 

[Argyle King]

It may work for you, but there are plenty of folks who think it wasn't a quality product, and therefore not a easy introduction to the game.

Plus, there were so many inconsistencies when it was first released, (which may've been fixed by now), that it confused some issues. Not the best quality for an intro set.

YMMV, of course. No need to beat a dead horse. I see room for improvement. If you and others don't, no worries. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the game will streamline over time, and I'll be happy when that happens.

The Red Box hits the mark perfectly. It's a bright red box that says in clear letters "STARTER SET." And its contents refer you to the next products to get if you want to continue to play/run the game.

I agree with Grenadine. The new Red Box was of questionable quality.

 

[Incenjucar]

WotC could perhaps put out a little fiberboard sign that gives players the "how to start" information right up front, which they could offer to retailers as freebie material.

 

[ourchair]

The system isn't in turmoil, a bunch of people are just whining about things on the internet as things are added. Politics, sports, music, you name it, the only difference is the subject. Personally, I'm not having Essentials players handbooks on my shelf. Other people like them, so they buy them.

Exactly. Perhaps the product line isn't the easiest to follow after the 'Core' and 'Essentials' but people make a bigger deal out of it than it really is.

Right now, on other message boards, there are people who are writing about how someone is destroying rock as we know it, or how such and such are destroying the game of soccer, or how World of Warcraft is destroying the MMO industry, and most people take that with a grain of salt. This so-called 'turmoil' is often the imaginings of people who think that D&D: The Product has to be a certain way even if it's bearing on D&D: The Game isn't as big as they make it out to be.

I'm starting a new group now where we didn't even buy the books. We went to the Barnes and Noble, made characters in the cafe, and I'm using DDI for monsters.

I don't know whether to high five you are hiss and boo. )

We bought drinks and food in the cafe, I bought some writing supplies. The three of us there probably spent over $60, I think they got a good return on investment.

Hey, you could have bought the two Heroes books and Rules Compendium with $60!

But they were HUNGRY. It was an ESSENTIAL expense.

You quoted me before saying this, but just to be clear, I don't think there are too many options.

I think that the options should be clearly and logically organized to make it easy for a new player to jump right in. And right now, they're not.

Just a quick look at the forums here on ENWorld shows me that this isn't so.

I think in a way, we underestimate the newcomers. Just because newcomers go online and post questions in the forums about the rules or the feats or whatever, it doesn't mean that we can automatically conclude that the game is less easy to follow than 1e, 2e.

After all, gaming literacy and mainstream society's ability to process it has increased over the past four decades. If anything, all the forum questions prove is that people can go online and ask questions for rules clarification. Give the Internet to 70s or 80s gamers, and I guarantee that you'd get a proportionately equal amount of rules inquiry as we do now.

 

[Herschel]

Heck, there would probably be a THAC0 forum by itself.

 

[Ourph]

I agree with Grenadine. The new Red Box was of questionable quality.

I think there are two issues in play here...

The first is the question the OP brought up; is the entry point into D&D too confusing. The second is; are the entry point products things that you, personally, would want to buy. The fact that individual people don't like them doesn't invalidate the point that the Red Box and Essentials provide a very clear and inexpensive entry point into the D&D hobby.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Hey, you could have bought the two Heroes books and Rules Compendium with $60!

Hahah, true! But we were hungry!