Too Complicated A Buy-In?

[Kaodi]

In the last year or two I have fallen into a bit of a rut where I have not been gaming or even that interested in gaming, but I am not looking to abandon my old hobby completely by any means. However, when I look at all the stuff that has been going on with 4E, I kind of have to wonder whether it would even be worth it to try and buy into the current system rather than just mooch off of fellow players who have.

Unless something were to come out like the Revised Player's Handbook that Mercurius mentions in his thread, I would have a hard time justifying buying into a system that just seems to be in utter turmoil. Of course, in theory, you can play the game with just the original books. But I imagine it would be a question of luck to find a group willing to play like that. Core only seemed to be more attractive option to throw back to in 3e than it does in 4E.

I mean, I rather liked 4E when it originally came out. It just feels like it has been turned into something of a pretzel. And I do not like pretzels enough to spend a ton of money on them.

 

[Ourph]

If you want to get involved with 4e, the Rules Compendium and a DDI subscription are all you really need to get started.

 

[C4]

I'm not sure what you mean by "pretzel," but I've written a couple dozen pdfs that compile a lot of 4e's basic stuff -- races, classes, skills. They include all official errata, plus some common sense fixes that WotC hasn't made official for whatever reason. I haven't written pdfs for any of 4e's add-ons though like backgrounds, themes, E classes, fortune cards, etc.

I don't know if that's what you're interested in, but send me an email (Complete4th@gmail.com) if you want to take a look.

 

[Kaodi]

I have no interest in DDI. With books, well, once you have paid for them they are good for life. If I stop playing D&D for 20 years, my modest 3e collection will still be as good as the day I bought them. Not so with DDI.

 

[Lostdwarf]

I have no interest in DDI. With books, well, once you have paid for them they are good for life. If I stop playing D&D for 20 years, my modest 3e collection will still be as good as the day I bought them. Not so with DDI.

Look at it this way, if you plunk down for a year at a time it only about 5 or 6 dollars a months. Basically two trips to starbucks. For that you get access to EVERYTHING. All the races, classes, feats, powers, monsters, all of it. You even get access to stuff that the guys who only buy the books don't get access to. It really is the cheap way out. Yes, if you stop subcribing you don't have access any more, but I can honestly say I haven't pulled out a pre-4th edition dnd book and read it in the entire time that 4th ed has been on the market.

If you are just philosophically opposed to online, then go Essentials. Less of an initial buy in, and far less material to collect.

 

[Dice4Hire]

There is an easy way to avoid the 'pretzel' (And I am really unsure what that even means in this context.

But some 4E books
Gather together some friends
Play
Ignore all the online hubbabaloo.

DONE!!!!!!!!

 

[JoeGKushner]

I have no interest in DDI. With books, well, once you have paid for them they are good for life. If I stop playing D&D for 20 years, my modest 3e collection will still be as good as the day I bought them. Not so with DDI.

Your initial post and this post confuse me. If you have the 4e Player's Handbook, you should be good to go no? After all, it's not like 3e didn't have a .5 version or that the .5 version was free of errata.

Errata your books and play or don't and move on.

 

[ourchair]

Essentials really is the way to go, and I say that as someone who never plays Essentials classes.

Everything's been tidied up in the 10 books, and everything else before (old PHBs, planar splatbooks, Power Source supplements) doesn't REALLY matter unless you really want it to.

And if you're hankering for the Traditional 4e classes: DDI is slowly re-introducing those old classes under new names, or you can just go back and buy the old PHBs.

It's not all that painful a buy in, you just need to know what you want and not feel that you need to invest into every product just cause.

 

[Kinneus]

I'm afraid it's getting to that point. Try to explain the difference between a Battlerage Vigor fighter and a Knight to a newbie. Although, I guess Battlerage Vigor fighters are now properly called 'Weaponmaster Battlerage Vigor fighters.' Kind of a mouthful.

Or try explaining the difference between a Hybrid character and somebody who's "just" multiclassed.

I don't care for Essentials, personally, but I like it as a nice, cheap, quick way for new players to get introduced to 4e. It's probably your best bet. Playing with just the PHB without any errata is possible, but it'll be a little clunky... just like it was back when it first debuted! So, really, not all that terrible.

(I could never personally go back, though... I love my wacky Hybrids and convoluted builds).

 

[ourchair]

I'm afraid it's getting to that point. Try to explain the difference between a Battlerage Vigor fighter and a Knight to a newbie. Although, I guess Battlerage Vigor fighters are now properly called 'Weaponmaster Battlerage Vigor fighters.' Kind of a mouthful.

And nevermind the fact that the Class Compendium doesn't acknowledge the Battlerager Vigor build, but that's okay since I think it's kind of obsolete now.

I don't care for Essentials, personally, but I like it as a nice, cheap, quick way for new players to get introduced to 4e. It's probably your best bet. Playing with just the PHB without any errata is possible, but it'll be a little clunky... just like it was back when it first debuted! So, really, not all that terrible.

I don't care enough for errata to watch it constantly. If the math seems off or whatever, then I errata things on the spot. If the monsters drag out combat, or the players miss too often, I just change the numbers.

When a DM knows how to swing the numbers in favor of fun, then he or she is the best errata.