Touch attacks with Sneak damage?

[jontherev]

I thought there was a rule that said for DR, you use the base damage and apply it. Sneak attack is bonus damage, not base damage right? You add it at the end, AFTER applying to the DR. The same as with bonus elemental damage, or precise strike. I would use the same principle for Endure Elements vs. elemental attacks. Is there some rule that says I'm interpreting this wrong? If so, point me to it.

 

[shilsen]

I thought there was a rule that said for DR, you use the base damage and apply it. Sneak attack is bonus damage, not base damage right? You add it at the end, AFTER applying to the DR. The same as with bonus elemental damage, or precise strike. I would use the same principle for Endure Elements vs. elemental attacks. Is there some rule that says I'm interpreting this wrong? If so, point me to it.

Ask, and you shall receive. From the FAQ:

Q: A rogue in my party has no magic weapons but did a sneak attack against a monster with damage reduction 20/+2. How should this attack be resolved? Do I roll the damage for the hit, add the bonus damage from the sneak attack, then compare the total to the DR? Or is there no sneak attack damage unless the basic attack beats the DR? According to what I could find in the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide , special effects from ranged or melee attacks don’t apply unless they’re magical, such as fire damage from the flaming weapon, or the attack that delivered the special
effect beats the DR. So, is sneak attack a special effect?

A: A sneak attack provides bonus damage, not a special effect. In a sneak attack, roll the bonus damage and apply that against the DR. For example, a rogue who hits a foe that has DR 20/+2 with a nonmagic short sword for 6 points of damage doesn’t get through the DR. If the same rogue sneak attacks for 25 points of damage, 5 points get through DR.

If the same rogue struck the same foe with a poisoned short sword for 6 points of damage, the foe would not be damaged, and the poison would not take effect because the DR stops all the damage. The same rogue sneak attacking the same foe with a poisoned short sword for 25 points of damage would deal 5 points to the foe and the foe would then have to save against the poison.

 

[Darklone]

Question:

If the rogue/AT hits a red dragon (fire subtype) with a ray of frost +5d6 sneak attack damage... Will the sneak attack damage be doubled too?

I don't think so (Multiplying rule says otherwise). But if sneak attack is different from +1d6 damage of a flaming weapon...

 

[IceBear]

Ask, and you shall receive. From the FAQ:

Q: A rogue in my party has no magic weapons but did a sneak attack against a monster with damage reduction 20/+2. How should this attack be resolved? Do I roll the damage for the hit, add the bonus damage from the sneak attack, then compare the total to the DR? Or is there no sneak attack damage unless the basic attack beats the DR? According to what I could find in the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide , special effects from ranged or melee attacks don’t apply unless they’re magical, such as fire damage from the flaming weapon, or the attack that delivered the special
effect beats the DR. So, is sneak attack a special effect?

A: A sneak attack provides bonus damage, not a special effect. In a sneak attack, roll the bonus damage and apply that against the DR. For example, a rogue who hits a foe that has DR 20/+2 with a nonmagic short sword for 6 points of damage doesn’t get through the DR. If the same rogue sneak attacks for 25 points of damage, 5 points get through DR.

If the same rogue struck the same foe with a poisoned short sword for 6 points of damage, the foe would not be damaged, and the poison would not take effect because the DR stops all the damage. The same rogue sneak attacking the same foe with a poisoned short sword for 25 points of damage would deal 5 points to the foe and the foe would then have to save against the poison.

Well, there you have it. Seems to go against my sense of common sense but that's the offical ruling. I will, probably be houseruling this to the way I think it should work, but at least we know what the offical answer is.

This answer implies that the 1d3 ray of frost, is - before it even reaches the target - a 1d3 + xd6 ray of frost, and that just feels wrong to me. I can kinda swallow (though not easily) the DR vs a weapon, but I don't see why a 1d3 ray of frost could overload a Protection from Elements spell because of WHERE it's going to hit vs it's actual magnitude.

IceBear

 

[IceBear]

Question:

If the rogue/AT hits a red dragon (fire subtype) with a ray of frost +5d6 sneak attack damage... Will the sneak attack damage be doubled too?

I don't think so (Multiplying rule says otherwise). But if sneak attack is different from +1d6 damage of a flaming weapon...

Yes it is (and I dislike that too). It specifically states in Tome and Blood that the sneak attack damage would, in this case, be cold damage and thus be doubled.

IceBear

 

[Darklone]

There it starts again... *sigh*

They wrote 3rd edition rules to get rid of all those thousands counterdicting rules with thousands of exceptions...

Wrote 3rd edition and really did a good step towards a consistent game system...

And now: Exception after exception.

Rant off.

 

[IceBear]

Agreed, and that's why I dislike it.

IceBear

 

[Darklone]

*Adding something to Darklones houserule files...*

 

[Lela]

For goodness sake, someone just e-mail the sage with this exact question. We're trying to apply rulings on similar things to a different rules section.

The whole thing seems wrong to me.


And my e-mail is down, dangit.

 

[jontherev]

Thanks shilsen, that clears things up as far as the rules go. So, by the rules, I guess Endure Elements won't stop the ray of frost + sneak attack damage.