D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e

[Treantmonklvl20]

Hey Treantmonk,

One of the items I did not understand was the 1st Chromatic Orb spell which I find vastly underrated. The pain point of picking an energy type seems to be a negative in your assessment of the spell, when in fact it seems to be its greatest strength. At times giving you double damage; add to the nice scalable aspect of using in a higher slot and it can do some serious damage to creatures who are vulnerable to a energy type. So not only does it do more than Magic Missile out the door, it can potential do a lot more to the right enemy. While ranged attack is not auto, sometimes I would rather trade a spell that has a ranged attack than one that requires a spell DC. Sometimes that math works out better for ranged attack than spell DCs especially with final bosses.

Seriously Chromatic Orb can deal 6d8 as a first level spell against the right enemy. 8d8 as a 2nd level slot against the right enemy.

Just a thought.

I think you and I have dramatically different observations on the frequency of energy vulnerabilities in opponents. Even some creatures where energy vulnerabilities would make a lot of sense often don't have them. Unless you have your MM memorized though, you are not unlikely to occassionally hit a resistance you don't expect.

For example - the following creatures are cold/water creatures I might think would have vulnerability to fire: Ice devils, White dragons, Water elementals, Marid, Frost giants, Ice mephit, Water Weird and Yeti.

Of all those creatures only one has vulnerability (the mephit), one has fire resistance and one has fire immunity.

 

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Thank you for your quick reply!

I decided to take another look at the spell. I have to say, still don't like it - at all. I'm not sure it compares that well with Scorching Ray as the two spells are quite different.

A spell that's very much like Aganazzar's Scorcher is Shatter. They are the same level, do the same damage, each provide a save for half damage. One covers 16 squares and takes effect up to 12 squares from the wizard, the other covers 6 squares in a straight line and takes effect right beside the wizard. This is a dramatic difference. I should also note that I only rate Shatter as purple.

Now shatter goes against a Con save rather than a Dex save, which I would say is worse, but it does thunder damage instead of fire damage, which I would say is better.

Now whether I rated Scorching Ray too high is a more interesting question. I may have...something I've been considering.

3x7 damage on successful hit rolls (none if missed) doesn't seem particularly good imho.
I'm not really sure the line shape is that bad, if you do not open the fight with it but rather cast it into melee. In the situations I recall it should be way easier to aim past companions.

Both spells are blasts, so they are not really overwhelming. I meant my comment regarding Aganazzar's in direct comparison with your rating of Scorching Ray. I'm not sure I would be willing to spend the 100 gp to copy any of those spells into my book.

I agree. I wish I could go back and revise that part of the podcast. Also note the Orc could interact with the box as a free action, making it pretty useless. More likely to be useful at range. As for a human fitting in a 5'x5'x5' box - I suspect that wouldn't be very hard. Have to duck a bit.

The human would have to know what is coming, if he ducks after the spell is cast and the orog sees it, it probably won't work. But I think most aggressively behaving creature striking at a party member would at least bash at the box, out of frustration or to topple it over. I would make the interaction cost a bonus action because it interferes with combat a little.

Regarding alternatives: Do you think it would be better to use firebolt or frostbite in your example?

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

Regarding alternatives: Do you think it would be better to use firebolt or frostbite in your example?

Which specific example are you referring to?
Ultimately, firebolt and frostbite are very similar cantrips, firebolt is usually marginally better, but in the very specific circumstances where frostbite is the better option, it's normally the much better option.
General rule - use firebolt unless the 10' movement penalty creates a foreseeable tactical advantage.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Thank you for your quick reply!

3x7 damage on successful hit rolls (none if missed) doesn't seem particularly good imho.
I'm not really sure the line shape is that bad, if you do not open the fight with it but rather cast it into melee. In the situations I recall it should be way easier to aim past companions.

Both spells are blasts, so they are not really overwhelming. I meant my comment regarding Aganazzar's in direct comparison with your rating of Scorching Ray. I'm not sure I would be willing to spend the 100 gp to copy any of those spells into my book.

The human would have to know what is coming, if he ducks after the spell is cast and the orog sees it, it probably won't work. But I think most aggressively behaving creature striking at a party member would at least bash at the box, out of frustration or to topple it over. I would make the interaction cost a bonus action because it interferes with combat a little.

Regarding alternatives: Do you think it would be better to use firebolt or frostbite in your example?

In 2nd edition agganazer´s scorcher lasted 2 rounds. I am sad to not see that feature implemented. Should have been something like witchbolt but with area damage and only for 2 rounds. (And better)

 

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Which specific example are you referring to?
Ultimately, firebolt and frostbite are very similar cantrips, firebolt is usually marginally better, but in the very specific circumstances where frostbite is the better option, it's normally the much better option.
General rule - use firebolt unless the 10' movement penalty creates a foreseeable tactical advantage.

Ray of Frost is the one that reduces movement. Frostbite is the one that does d6 damage and disadvantage on a failed con save. I meant the example of stabby, the barbarian and the orog, where the orog shouldn't attack stabby for the party to win and you suggested minor illusion to give the orog disadvantage and stabby advantage.
I thought frostbite can at least try to be the minor illusion you talked about in the podcast, but with a con save. It is certainly weaker. Do you think it would be better to try that for control or just blast with firebolt?

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

Ray of Frost is the one that reduces movement. Frostbite is the one that does d6 damage and disadvantage on a failed con save. I meant the example of stabby, the barbarian and the orog, where the orog shouldn't attack stabby for the party to win and you suggested minor illusion to give the orog disadvantage and stabby advantage.
I thought frostbite can at least try to be the minor illusion you talked about in the podcast, but with a con save. It is certainly weaker. Do you think it would be better to try that for control or just blast with firebolt?

Oops - yes, that's an interesting question.

Of course, the idea of the minor illusion crate is to create disadvantage against stabby, which (if it works) promotes the attack of the raging barbarian instead. If Frostbite sticks, then that tactic fails, as the orog has disadvantage against both targets (at least on the first attack).

That said, if the crate illusion is not going to work, Frostbite at least gives you some form of reduction on the offense of the enemy if they fail their save. Now without the MM right in front of me, I'm guessing that an Orog has a pretty good Con save - usually not the best save to target when fighting big brutes.

So in the end, I guess I might stick with the firebolt until the illusion was revealed - at which point I might try another illusion. I would probably save frostbite for enemies I suspected didn't have as much Con.

 

[CapnZapp]

There are very few outright vulnerabilities in the Monster Manual.

I'm almost considering lack of resistance a vulnerability.

Not that I complain - hitting a foe with damage he's vulnerable to is almost an 'I win' button. PCs don't need the help that is double damage.

 

[Peter Larkin]

Feeblemind blue for Necromancers?

There are some pretty nice undead which would normally get a recurring save (annoying) against Necromancers' level 14 ability. But since Feeblemind changes their INT to 1, you can permanently enslave any undead you manage to land Feeblemind on. There are some nice undead which have say 13 or 14 int and thereby a mediocre INT save making them perfect candidates.

The obvious drawback is you wouldn't be getting another spellcaster with this trick, as they'd not be able to cast spells. But there are undead with nice abilities that are not spells, as well as others that might serve as nice tanks/meatshields.

 

[Thatwhichlurks]

There are some pretty nice undead which would normally get a recurring save (annoying) against Necromancers' level 14 ability. But since Feeblemind changes their INT to 1, you can permanently enslave any undead you manage to land Feeblemind on. There are some nice undead which have say 13 or 14 int and thereby a mediocre INT save making them perfect candidates.

The obvious drawback is you wouldn't be getting another spellcaster with this trick, as they'd not be able to cast spells. But there are undead with nice abilities that are not spells, as well as others that might serve as nice tanks/meatshields.

Another issue with using Feeblemind then commanding the undead creature is how you order the undead with Command Undead; It says that the creature obeys your commands. How do you command it? Feeblemind says that whatever fails the save can't understand any language, so if you have to use verbal commands, then it will not work. That also means that while the undead creature is friendly to you, the same cannot be said for your party members ( can recognize friends, foes, etc).

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Another issue with using Feeblemind then commanding the undead creature is how you order the undead with Command Undead; It says that the creature obeys your commands. How do you command it? Feeblemind says that whatever fails the save can't understand any language, so if you have to use verbal commands, then it will not work. That also means that while the undead creature is friendly to you, the same cannot be said for your party members ( can recognize friends, foes, etc).

A horribly hacky way would be to dispel Feeblemind every time you want to give it a new set of commands, and then Feeblemind it again afterwards.

But really it's probably better to just stick with Mummy Lords and Ancient White Dracoliches, or research a custom "Minor Feeblemind" spell that decreases Int instead of setting it to 1.