TSR TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine. Then, earlier this year, TSR (3) swooped in on the TSR trademark, after Jayson Elliot accidentally let it lapse, as TSR (2) confirms:

We have owned the TSR trademark since 2011. Last year, we missed a filing date, and another company registered it, though we are still using it in commerce. While we could win a lawsuit, we frankly don't have the money to litigate. So, we're licensing it back from them.

As a result, there are two companies now using the name TSR. You can tell when it's us because we're the only ones using the new logo.

They're opening a museum in Lake Geneva at the old TSR house, and we wish them success with it, it's important to celebrate the legacy that Gary Gygax created.

Ernie Gygax, formerly of TSR (1) under Gary Gygax, then working with Jayson Elliot as part of TSR (2), is one of the founders of of TSR (3), and confirmed in his (now infamous) interview --

The other TSR is a licensee because [Jayson Elliot] let it lapse. But he had absolutely ... love for the game and the products. There was no reason to say 'oh you've screwed up, oh it's all ours, ha ha ha ha!' Instead, Justin [LaNasa] came to him and said ... we love that you're doing Top Secret things, we have a much broader goal for the whole thing. But there's no reason for you to stop or even have any troubles. Justin said, I'll take care of the paperwork, you just give me $10 a year, and you put out all this love for old school gaming that you can. And we appreciate that you were there to try and pick up things, and you produced Gygax Magazine, for in its time that you're also working on a game that you love to play ... because Top Secret was Jayson's love, as a young man.

TSR (2), still run by Jayson Elliot, publishes Top Secret, and is not connected to TSR (3) other than now having to license it’s own name from them. TSR (3) has also registered the trademark to Star Frontiers, a game owned by and still currently sold by D&D-owner WotC.

In other news the GYGAX trademark appears to have lapsed.

UPDATE! TSR (2) has decided NOT to license its own name from TSR (3):

Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion.

 

[pemerton]

I don't know how old Gygax Jr is, but I gather he was born in the 60s? So he's well over 50 years old?

Maybe in his personal life he still sees social interaction, relations between people of differing genders, etc, through the lens of his time as a school student. But in a professional/business context I feel it's time to grow up.

As an Australian, the school shooting stuff doesn't resonate particularly with me as anything but rather lurid for an outward-facing statement with an ostensible business purpose. What I noticed was the reference to "those wonderful and yet scary girls". I don't hold his lived experience against him. But it's not the basis for a business strategy, nor for an apology about indifference and hostility expressed along gendered lines.

 

[humble minion]

I am starting to seriously think Ernie Jr is showing a lot of signs of senility and the people around him are taking full advantage of it. It may be time for his family to make an intervention before all this can totally destroy him.

I'd be extremely hesitant to make any sort of medical diagnosis based on a handful of internet posts the guy has made, and I suggest everyone else should be too (if you're a gerontologist, then of course i bow to your expertise...) People can be incoherent, illogical, and spout garbage opinions and still be in perfectly good health.

And I believe Luke Gygax has already made some sort of public statement about this, in which he strongly disagrees with the public stances TSR3 are taking. We have no idea what he's said to Ernie behind the scenes (and tbh none of the Gygax family owes us any details in that department anyway).

 

[Black Dougal]

I don't know how old Gygax Jr is, but I gather he was born in the 60s? So he's well over 50 years old?

Maybe in his personal life he still sees social interaction, relations between people of differing genders, etc, through the lens of his time as a school student. But in a professional/business context I feel it's time to grow up.

As an Australian, the school shooting stuff doesn't resonate particularly with me as anything but rather lurid for an outward-facing statement with an ostensible business purpose. What I noticed was the reference to "those wonderful and yet scary girls". I don't hold his lived experience against him. But it's not the basis for a business strategy, nor for an apology about indifference and hostility expressed along gendered lines.

He's old enough to know better.

It's a non apology really, and not to knock on him but a lot of his posting have always been rambling and all over the place. The last update he gave for the MT Kickstarter was a mess and prior to that one update was basically "stop riding us, it'll get done and no amount of outside help will speed it up". Then of course he eventually handed it to pros to finish.

His business sense was bad enough without the BS about gender and individuals and not modern men lol.

 

[Black Dougal]

And I believe Luke Gygax has already made some sort of public statement about this, in which he strongly disagrees with the public stances TSR3 are taking. We have no idea what he's said to Ernie behind the scenes (and tbh none of the Gygax family owes us any details in that department anyway).

Alex and Heidi are also asking he do the right thing as well at this point.

 

[GreyLord]

I feel some pity for him reading this post, tbh. He’s so unbelievably out of touch. Harbouring a high school fantasy of revenge against the bullies making your life miserable is understandable, but openly discussing the violent particulars of that fantasy today, given the sheer number of school shootings that have taken place in the last twenty-five years, is frighteningly insensitive and tone-deaf; he just can’t open his mouth without jamming his foot in.

I don’t think he’s actively courting controversy; I believe he genuinely thinks he has the best of intentions and sincerely tries to be welcoming to people of all stripes. But he seems utterly incapable of the kind of introspection and growth that would allow him to actually achieve that. He’s a complete mess.

i hope the backlash he’s getting will help him reflect and grow, but somehow I doubt it will.

That's not what I actually got out of it.

I got that he has been bullied in the past. That was WRONG for him to have been bullied. He points out that this was hard for those like him who he sees were other gamers. Those in his situation that were bullied were ALSO wronged.

This bullying CONTINUES TODAY. He is pointing out that his perspective is more of one that has been picked on, discriminated against (and those who have been in that type of situation would recognize this, and that applies to anyone in a minority who has been bullied due to race or other scenario) in any situation.

What is more of a difference of perspective is how this may apply today. I think he is saying that some of the attutides and statements towards those who were part of the gaming culture in the past and who created the game as well as those who were contributors as players of the game at the origins of the game were bullied then, and the bullying has continued today.

I think this is right and wrong. Looking at the threads, I've seen what could be construed as MASSIVE bullying towards him. Some attitudes of deciding to not do business because of some of his expressions may be warranted on an individual level, but other items tossed towards him with threats and other calls for unwarranted actions have been extremely uncalled for...but have been left alone to remain as threats.

I may not have experienced it in the same way he did as a youth, but I have experienced similar things as he describes simply because of what I am.

That does not mean I'm okay with what he has apparently stated over the past few days at this point, but I also can see where he might be coming from in his apology and his attempt at defending his words that he said.

It does not undo any bigotry itself, but some of his other statements could be explained from that viewpoint of others bullying him and those who are his friends in the past...AND TODAY.

And...though I expect there will be bullies who will condemn and crash upon me because of what I am posting here, I think he is correct. There IS a large mindset that seems to want to bully others today and jump to conclusions which may or may not be correct. People jump to conclusions and use that as an impetus to accuse and then harass. I probably have been part of the mob mindset at times myself...unfortunately...but it is something WE, as a COMMUNITY NEED TO STOP DOING as it IS A FORM of internet bullying in and of itself.

He is using that to say that when they created the game in the past or were part of the players, they were not purposefully trying to create a discriminatory or prejudice game that excluded anyone, but that instead they were trying to be inclusive. That statements from articles or warnings that indicate that this was their background and impetus...are incorrect and this is what he is disagreeing with in modern game design. That...of course...would be his opinion (or at least how I'm interpreting his statement, which may or may not be a correct interpretation).

I believe him in his statements that he is wishing to be inclusive and has been in the past. I'm not sure it erases some of the stuff that has happened over the past few days, but I think that if he has issued an apology as posted above, some understanding should be given and lenience on both sides.

That doesn't mean I am advocating for everyone to go and buy his stuff or what is put out, but that until other items come out, stop the attacks that are being put out against him. It doesn't mean instant forgetting, more of a wary watchfulness of what comes next. Give him the benefit of the doubt and stop attacking ceaselessly.

Once again, that doesn't mean one has to go and now support him or buy anything by them, in fact, the events of the past few days may have convinced many not to do that. However, it means to let dead dogs lie as long as they lie dead...instead of parading around the past in a parody of the exact same type of accusations leveled against him the past few days.

I'll take the apology at face value from what I see. Bullying obviously caused him great distress when he was young. It obviously was very intense. Perhaps some sympathy and understanding on our part would help overcome the demons of the past rather than aggravate the demons of the present. Helping someone overcome these difficulties rather than mock or become the aggressors ourselves seems to be the better path than degrading ourselves to bullying and harassment instead.

He says that anyone has been welcome at his table and his games are for all. Many have indicated he has been this way in the past. Giving him a chance to show this from now and in the future seems the prudent path to take, which is a more watch and wait rather than continue any aggressive behavior against him...

In my opinion...of course.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I don't know how old Gygax Jr is, but I gather he was born in the 60s? So he's well over 50 years old?

He's 61. According to Michael Witwer's biography of Gary Gygax, Empire of Imagination "Ernie, the couple’s first child, was born in September 1959".

 

[Neonchameleon]

That's not what I actually got out of it.

I got that he has been bullied in the past. That was WRONG for him to have been bullied. He points out that this was hard for those like him who he sees were other gamers. Those in his situation that were bullied were ALSO wronged.

This bullying CONTINUES TODAY. He is pointing out that his perspective is more of one that has been picked on, discriminated against (and those who have been in that type of situation would recognize this, and that applies to anyone in a minority who has been bullied due to race or other scenario) in any situation.

His perspective may be that of someone who has been picked on and discriminated against but it is also that of someone who here, rather than empathising with the bullied has decided to join the bullies in both mocking and abusing trans people and attempting to deny their identity. "I've been bullied so I should be given a free pass when I side with a far nastier set of bullies than I ever faced" is not a good look.

 

[Zardnaar]

His perspective may be that of someone who has been picked on and discriminated against but it is also that of someone who here, rather than empathising with the bullied has decided to join the bullies in both mocking and abusing trans people and attempting to deny their identity. "I've been bullied so I should be given a free pass when I side with a far nastier set of bullies than I ever faced" is not a good look.

I think everyone probably got bullied to some extent.

His school sounds like an improvement over mine. I've still got the physical scars from my school. They stripped the lockers out of my school.

Still could be worse most of the LGBTQ didn't make it past year two early 90's due to bullying/assault. Would rather get cut with a chisel vs love spuds jumped on.

 

[Dessert Nomad]

This bullying CONTINUES TODAY. He is pointing out that his perspective is more of one that has been picked on, discriminated against (and those who have been in that type of situation would recognize this, and that applies to anyone in a minority who has been bullied due to race or other scenario) in any situation.

No, he is a rich straight white guy who thought that this was still the good ol' 1980s when you could target trans people for mean-spirited jokes and still be popular. The bullying that CONTINUES TODAY is him attempting to bully trans people, and trying to claim that he's the oppressed minority and not the people he tried to bully is both absurd and offensive.

And...though I expect there will be bullies who will condemn and crash upon me because of what I am posting here, I think he is correct. There IS a large mindset that seems to want to bully others today and jump to conclusions which may or may not be correct. People jump to conclusions and use that as an impetus to accuse and then harass. I probably have been part of the mob mindset at times myself...unfortunately...but it is something WE, as a COMMUNITY NEED TO STOP DOING as it IS A FORM of internet bullying in and of itself.

Are you asserting that responding to a bigot by calling out and condemning his bigotry makes someone a 'bully'? If not, what exactly is the 'bully others' that you're talking about. Are you asserting that quoting his statements and discussing the plain meaning of them

Are you saying that minorities and their allies standing together against bigots who try to bully them are forming a 'mob' for not just taking what the bigots dish out? If not, what exactly is this 'mob', what does it do, and what exactly is the thing that WE as a COMMUNITY NEED TO STOP DOING.

That doesn't mean I am advocating for everyone to go and buy his stuff or what is put out, but that until other items come out, stop the attacks that are being put out against him. It doesn't mean instant forgetting, more of a wary watchfulness of what comes next. Give him the benefit of the doubt and stop attacking ceaselessly.

What are "the attacks" exactly - repeating his words and what they mean, and pointing out the people who he has chosen to associate with? Or are there some sort of physical attacks being made? Or really anything beyond "people chose to respond to his exercise of free speech with their own free speech"?

He says that anyone has been welcome at his table and his games are for all. Many have indicated he has been this way in the past. Giving him a chance to show this from now and in the future seems the prudent path to take, which is a more watch and wait rather than continue any aggressive behavior against him...

What 'aggressive behavior' are you referring to exactly? Are you saying that those mean LGBT people saying 'hey, I'm part of gaming, don't treat my core identity and very existence with contempt' are the ones being aggressive, or is it something else?

This post looks like a lot of projection and using hot-button words, and not a lot of substance to me. Saying "I was bullied in the past" doesn't excuse you bullying people, especially when you're a privileged cishetwhitedude bullying a very small, vulnerable minority group who are often subject to attacks.

 

[David Murrell]

I am as old as D&D, and have been playing for 36 years. My first ever game was 1st ed. AD&D and for a long time 2nd ed. was my preferred version of the game, though now it is 5E. I had a reasonable affection for the real TSR, and was saddened when it went under and was bought out by a CCG company (as I saw WotC at the time). I also viewed Gary Gygax as kind of a lesser Stan Lee, someone important to the hobby who when you looked into him wasn't quite the myth built up around him. The thing is the real TSR is dead and buried, and Ernie is not the Gygax that ever mattered, even if he does share the same name. When I heard about this new reincarnated TSR, it was with more skepticism than interest, especially when I found out he was behind the Kickstarter my oldest RPG friend had been moaning about for over half a decade.

I guess that I am possibly one of those Ernie is meant to be speaking for age wise, though I am in my mid forties so maybe I am too young. Thing is he really doesn't and I find his attitude deeply annoying, especially since I have been a fan of the real TSR longer than I have of WotC. Not only do I not want to be, in age association, to be tarred with the same brush as his opinions, I also find his attitude as a taint on the memory of the TSR I used to be a fan of. As I said at the beginning, I am as old as D&D, we came into the world at the same time. I am definitely not the same person as I was in 1974, nor am I the same person as I was when I started playing D&D ten years later, my opinions have changed since the time WotC bought D&D, not only about gaming but how the world is and should be. If my attitudes and opinions have changed and matured, why would the hobby I love or even the game which brought me into the hobby not do the same? The idea that D&D or the hobby should have been static for the last 4 plus decades, is ridiculous. To survive it had to change and adapt to those who came into the hobby, especially those who are far younger than the game they are now playing. I am confident that this new false TSR will not survive and will not be fondly remembered. In some ways I am slightly saddened by that, not because of it is, but what it could have been.