TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.


The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).


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The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".


TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".


TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.


 
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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Or rather, wanting to sue them. They are trying to raise funds to do so here.

Man, the fun never stops with these guys. A few initial observations

1. I can't help but notice the irony in nu-nu TSR suing someone

2. If I were to speculate, I would speculate that none of this money would actually go to a lawsuit. Everything I've seen from them, or rather, haven't seen in the way of actual products, just reminds me of grifting.

3. This was the most interesting part:

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.

That reads to me like WotC has been sending them them things, like C&Ds. Perhaps when they kept using the original cover of Star Frontiers to pimp their "upcoming" project?

4. And good luck proving this part!

This disclaimer* attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

*
Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".
 



timbannock

Adventurer
Is this not contradictory?:

From the FAQ:

What else will these memberships get you at the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum?
These memberships will only be for a limited time and only during this campaign. These very special perks are separate from the normal Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum memberships, but have legendary value in many ways.

How long are Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum memberships good for?
Memberships are Lifetime.
 


Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
His arguments hold no water at all. I'm a "grognard." My favorite edition is still 1e (with some 2e elements). I was also playing back in the early days. Nothing in WotC's disclaimer is calling me a bigot. Nothing. And I'd posit that people who aren't bigots wouldn't assume they are being called that by the disclaimer either.

If Justin doesn't want to be called a bigot or misogynist, how about stop doing bigoted or misogynistic things, like forcing female employees to have a bikini wrestling match. Just a thought.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Is this not contradictory?:

From the FAQ:

What else will these memberships get you at the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum?
These memberships will only be for a limited time and only during this campaign. These very special perks are separate from the normal Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum memberships, but have legendary value in many ways.

How long are Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum memberships good for?
Memberships are Lifetime.
"legendary value" 🤣🤣🤣

These guys love to use superlatives that make no sense, don't they?
 

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
Is this not contradictory?:

From the FAQ:

What else will these memberships get you at the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum?
These memberships will only be for a limited time and only during this campaign. These very special perks are separate from the normal Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum memberships, but have legendary value in many ways.

How long are Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum memberships good for?
Memberships are Lifetime.
As usual they have poor grammar and endemic typos. I think they meant to write "only be available for a limited time and only during this campaign".
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

Is that even possible? WotC owns those products; can't they say what they want about their own stuff?
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
2. If I were to speculate, I would speculate that none of this money would actually go to a lawsuit. Everything I've seen from them, or rather, haven't seen in the way of actual products, just reminds me of grifting.

These people are so, so dumb.

If we accept as probable the posit that they aren't actually intending to spend the money on a lawsuit, then they aren't all that dumb.
 




billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
I also noticed that their $1000 pledge level said they'd be eligible to receive special perks - not that they'd receive special perks. That looks to me like they may be in violation of indiegogo's policies which prohibit non-guaranteed perks. So I reported it.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Would that be fraud on their part?

I am not a lawyer. In this context, however, I suspect it would be near impossible to prove, unless someone gets hold of an e-mail from LaNasa that says, "Those chumps just gave us $10 K - let's build a swimming pool!" or the like.

Also, crowdfunding doesn't really promise that the money will be spent well, or that the project will turn out as claimed. So...

Or is "All proceeds go toward the legal battle against Wizards of the Coast." vague enough that they can spend it on just about anything related to people thinking about a legal battle.

How good is the lawyer?

"Well, Your Honor, I can't pursue these lawsuits if I am homeless, so I spent the money on mortgage payments and other personal support in this difficult time when we were beset by WotC..."
 

Or rather, wanting to sue them. They are trying to raise funds to do so here.

Man, the fun never stops with these guys. A few initial observations

1. I can't help but notice the irony in nu-nu TSR suing someone

2. If I were to speculate, I would speculate that none of this money would actually go to a lawsuit. Everything I've seen from them, or rather, haven't seen in the way of actual products, just reminds me of grifting.

3. This was the most interesting part:



That reads to me like WotC has been sending them them things, like C&Ds. Perhaps when they kept using the original cover of Star Frontiers to pimp their "upcoming" project?

4. And good luck proving this part!



*
Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".
Where can I donate to WotC's legal defense fund?
 




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