TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.


The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).


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The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".


TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".


TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.


 
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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
It'll play that way to some people. To anybody who understands the very basics of business and intellectual property, however, it will appear as what it is - a company protecting their own property from unauthorized use. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that group B is exponentially larger than group A.

No one in this world, so far as I know, has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.
 

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JediSoth

Semi-Professional Author
Epic
It'll play that way to some people. To anybody who understands the very basics of business and intellectual property, however, it will appear as what it is - a company protecting their own property from unauthorized use. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that group B is exponentially larger than group A.

But our numbers are small and TSR has AN ARMY!
eyeroll
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
It'll play that way to some people. To anybody who understands the very basics of business and intellectual property, however, it will appear as what it is - a company protecting their own property from unauthorized use. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that group B is exponentially larger than group A.
But group A is exponentially louder.

A common proverb from where I grew up is "the squeakiest wheel gets the most grease," and I still hear it from time to time when I'm talking to the older members of my family. Where I come from, there are people who think that the louder they complain, the more likely they are to get what they want.

Maybe that was the case 50 years ago. But nowadays, the truth is closer to "the squeakiest wheel is the first to be replaced."
 

Gradine

Final Form (they/them)
But group A is exponentially louder.

A common proverb from where I grew up is "the squeakiest wheel gets the most grease," and I still hear it from time to time when I'm talking to the older members of my family. Where I come from, there are people who think that the louder they complain, the more likely they are to get what they want.

Maybe that was the case 50 years ago. But nowadays, the truth is closer to "the squeakiest wheel is the first to be replaced."
Yeah, and we here in D&D land have another, more prescient saying in re: squeaky wheels and what they get.

 

Sir Brennen

Legend
So, just saw something interesting posted on another forum. Quoting the poster there (might also be on here), with my own INAL disclaimer, as I can't vouch for the veracity of the statement (though someone here can probably confirm.)
WotC has filed trademark cancellation proceedings for some of TSR's trademarks, accusing TSR of having "committed fraud on the Unites States Patent and Trademark Office" in connection with some of their filings.

WotC is asserting their right to the marks and they are accusing TSR of a federal crime. Beyond the civil penalties of up to $150,000 per infringement that WotC could potentially go after once this is done, fraud in regards to filing a trademark can potentially lead to jail time.

Edit: @JediSoth I see it was you on the other forum. Did you already mention this here?


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Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
The unfortunate news is that such folks are very, very good at amplifying their voices to hide their numbers.

The good news is that they have to hide their numbers

Maybe? I think that people always overestimate (1) the number of people that agree with them, and (2) the number of people that are engaged ... at all.

And this is true of all issues, and all "sides."

For instance- surveys have consistently shown that more than 1/2 of all Americans (and up to 2/3) cannot name a single Supreme Court Justice. That's pretty wild, if you ask me!

But then again, surveys also consistently show an inability to understand basic issues in civics; so if you're expecting people to understand the nuances of, say, federal court jurisdiction, or the difference between copyright and trademark, or forum non conveniens, or why parties can dismiss suits without prejudice (and when, and what that means), then ... well, good luck!

This is why when you hear someone tell a whopper, something that just seems absurd ... well, it might work. Because as terrible as it is to say ... people are stupid. Or, more charitably, people care about other things (like making it from paycheck to paycheck) and are inclined to believe what they already want to be true.
 


Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum spammed the Castles & Crusades FB group with this an hour ago:

"Press Release 12/ 11/ 2021 Withdrawal of suit
TSR plans on re-filing the Declaratory Judgment of Ownership in Washington state and also carrying on its actions to have Wizards of the Coast remove or change its legacy Disclaimer. Whatever rumors you have been reading DISREGARD.
Not one media source (Except Clownfish TV & The Evil DM) asked TSR for clarification why DJOO was withdrawn.
Justin LaNasa
CEO TSR"

The Clownfish video in question if anyone is curious. Also talks about some Warhammer stuff, but I'm not into Warhammer (although I'll note that games workshop's Warhammer manages to have a very successful and massive novel line despite having a fraction of D&D or MtG's audience, I only know this because of Tolerian Community College's channel).

I really can't speak to any of the Warhammer stuff later in the video, I didn't bother to watch that part because I don't like Warhammer, so I don't care.

Personally I like Clownfish, he and Gege Sparkles seem reasonable folks compared so some that are just pure click bait.

 


Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
It should be noted that the overwhelming number of people who support Justin are not mentioning the actual meat of the suit: the IP rights. Rather, almost to a man (and let's be honest, they're all men), they are supporting him because "woke leftists at WoTC are calling all of us racists and bigots." Which of course, they aren't, but it seems to verify that manufactured outrage can be profitable to those who exploit the fragile demographic.
 

Scribe

Hero
Maybe? I think that people always overestimate (1) the number of people that agree with them, and (2) the number of people that are engaged ... at all.

And this is true of all issues, and all "sides."
This is the reality.

It's super easy to get caught up in thinking there is some movement, or mass outcry.

The majority really couldn't care less, as they are oblivious to any issue existing at all.
 

Bolares

Hero
The Clownfish video in question if anyone is curious. Also talks about some Warhammer stuff, but I'm not into Warhammer (although I'll note that games workshop's Warhammer manages to have a very successful and massive novel line despite having a fraction of D&D or MtG's audience, I only know this because of Tolerian Community College's channel).

I really can't speak to any of the Warhammer stuff later in the video, I didn't bother to watch that part because I don't like Warhammer, so I don't care.

Personally I like Clownfish, he and Gege Sparkles seem reasonable folks compared so some that are just pure click bait.

Given TSR3's history with youtubers and streamers I think I'll pass on the video.
 




Don't waste your time. I only made it 5 minutes. Clearly the guy at Clownfish didn't bother to do any research or fact checking. He immediately went full on in defense of LaNasa, and his bias was pretty obvious.

If your upset by bias' you might as well get rid of your internet, because no corner of the internet is free of them. You clearly have your own.

Look I personally don't think they will win this lawsuit and it's a waste of money, but actually asking questions of the person involved when reporting on a story is the most basic piece of journalism and MSM didn't bother, Clownfish did so biases or not at least he's putting some effort in, which is more then you can say for the MSM.

I just don't get journalist who don't know they are supposed to reach other to both sides for comment, it's like the basic minimum of journalism.
 

BRayne

Adventurer
If your upset by bias' you might as well get rid of your internet, because no corner of the internet is free of them. You clearly have your own.

Look I personally don't think they will win this lawsuit and it's a waste of money, but actually asking questions of the person involved when reporting on a story is the most basic piece of journalism and MSM didn't bother, Clownfish did so biases or not at least he's putting some effort in, which is more then you can say for the MSM.

I just don't get journalist who don't know they are supposed to reach other to both sides for comment, it's like the basic minimum of journalism.

Has anything that can be reasonably referred to as "mainstream media" even acknowledged this situation?
 

Bolares

Hero
If your upset by bias' you might as well get rid of your internet, because no corner of the internet is free of them. You clearly have your own.
Well, there are biases and biases. Being biased thowards a grifter that disrespects the legacy of the game, tries to start culture wars and has the history of being sexist and transphobic is a real bad color in my book.

And about questioning TSR... A LOT of people, including @Morrus did try to question them. People who did, and where not straight up defending TSR were either:

-Labeled Haters;
-Ignored;
-Called disgusting;

So I'm sorry if I don't buy the whole "journalists who don't know they are supposed to reach both sides for comment" argument.
 

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