Twin Strike or similar powers & target selection

[surfarcher]

No, not with Combat Challenge.

A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place.

 

[Holy Bovine]

When the rules aren't clear I always go for what is more fun for the player. Having an attack wasted because the first one killed the target is not fun. I say let them choose before each individual attack roll.

Yup - this is how I do it and my reason for doing so. Really critters in 4E have a lot of hps and giving the Ranger a chance to drop one badly hurt guy and damage another falls under Good Things in my DM book.

 

[DracoSuave]

Targeting is still not an effect. Being targeted by an enemy does not affect the enemy. Hitting the enemy or placing an effect on them does, but not targeting. This rule is inapplicable to targeting.

Targetting, however IS part of -resolving an effect-.

Targetting doesn't happen when there is no effect to resolve.

 

[Mengu]

I'll have to agree that the answer is not clear because of the muddled attack vs attack power debacle.

However, from Hunter's Quarry:

"If you can make multiple attacks in a round, you decide which attack to apply the extra damage to after all the attacks are rolled."

From this snippet, I glean that you make the attacks first, decide which attack gets your quarry damage, then roll damage. This way you are making sure if either one of the attacks is a critical hit, you can apply the damage to that hit. So theoretically, you don't even know if an attack would drop a target or not until both attack rolls have been resolved.

I think the intent is that you pick the targets, roll the attacks, then roll the damage.

Having said that, as a house rule, I completely ignore the snippet I quoted, for no other reason than to speed up resolution. I don't need the ranger pondering on his turn whether he should pick one target or two targets (players get pondersome enough as it is). The freedom to make the first attack and the damage roll makes decisions easier. Of course you lose the flexibility to gain maximum benefit from critical hits when you are resolving damage before the second attack. But you get the benefit of taking a shot at a different target when the first goes down, or targeting the same target if you miss. I just find this is a speedier way to resolve things.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Speedier?
Wouldn't it be a lot faster to roll both attacks at the same time?
('cos if you choose both targets before rolling, and decide where to apply quarry after rolling all attacks, rolling both at the same time usually won't make any difference)

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, I think that one's pretty clear: First choose target(s) then make the attack rolls. This is not like 3e's iterative attacks.

Twin Strike is really good enough without inventing additional advantages.

 

[Samir]

Well, I think that one's pretty clear: First choose target(s) then make the attack rolls.

I don't believe this is either RAW or RAI.

 

[Mengu]

Speedier?
Wouldn't it be a lot faster to roll both attacks at the same time?
('cos if you choose both targets before rolling, and decide where to apply quarry after rolling all attacks, rolling both at the same time usually won't make any difference)

In my experience if you are making people "choose" something (like whether they want to attack one target or two targets), you get this quiz show moment like they are trying to decide if they want to gamble with a million dollars, and it takes more time than resolving two separate attacks. YMMV.

 

[Danceofmasks]

And the other posters hereabouts are saying you're confusing two different definitions of "attack."

I.e. the references about choosing targets and making rolls can apply to:

(1) attack powers
(2) primary vs secondary vs tertiary targets
(3) multiple primary attacks
(4) multiple attack rolls but a single attack

Take Two-Wolf Pounce (1) as an example.
The procedure they advocate is to go down the power line by line.

Choose primary target (2)
Make all attacks vs. primary target (3)
Resolve Effect (4)
Choose secondary target (2)
Attack secondary target

The effect says "after attacking the primary target, you can shift 2 squares and make a secondary attack."
By your interpretation, you get to make the secondary attack twice, 'cos you resolved attacks vs the primary target twice.

Seriously, resolving a power line by line is a lot more logical.

 

[Danceofmasks]

In my experience if you are making people "choose" something (like whether they want to attack one target or two targets), you get this quiz show moment like they are trying to decide if they want to gamble with a million dollars, and it takes more time than resolving two separate attacks. YMMV.

And that's different to choosing which of 15 powers to use, which augments to use or not use, and where to place their burst templates, how?
If the players are having difficulty making decisions when it's a level 1 at-will, it's not the system's fault.
I can guarantee players who learn to make twin-strike decisions quickly will end up being more competent juggling a level 24 character's powers than one who had the system changed for them to suit their n00bishness.

I mean if you think the power actually works that way, great.
If you don't, then you're not doing them or your game any favours.