Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Traps Revisited

Actually an interesting article. I'm still scanning through it, though. I like the way they discuss the traps, their creation, and countermeasures (something that was missing, I think, from the DMG).

Poisoned Tempest is an absolutely inspired and devious trap! I love it!!!

 

[jgsugden]

I've used the same system for traps and hazzards for over thirty years. There are three steps to consider: detect, understand, and disable. Detection is based upon perception. a Understanding is based upon the nature of the trap, but is usually a knowledge based skill. Disabling is usually a dexterity (thieves picks) check. There is rarely more than one difficult checks amongst the three - in fact, most situations involve three pretty easy checks, or I rule that some of the checks can be passed passively. Sometimes, like int he case of a covered pit trap, the disable trap can be bypassed.

If you think of traps in terms of these three elements, it is rarely hard to figure out how to adjudicate them. It may take a while to understand the math that makes a reasonable challenge for the PCs in your group, but the rest is very intuitive.I'm not saying people won't look at it differently at times, but it is usually easy for a DMto decide how to put it together.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I've used the same system for traps and hazzards for over thirty years. There are three steps to consider: detect, understand, and disable. Detection is based upon perception. a Understanding is based upon the nature of the trap, but is usually a knowledge based skill. Disabling is usually a dexterity (thieves picks) check. There is rarely more than one difficult checks amongst the three - in fact, most situations involve three pretty easy checks, or I rule that some of the checks can be passed passively. Sometimes, like int he case of a covered pit trap, the disable trap can be bypassed.

The problem with requiring 3 checks is that even if your PCs have a 75% chance to pass each check, they only end up with a 40% chance of defeating the trap.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

The problem with requiring 3 checks is that even if your PCs have a 75% chance to pass each check, they only end up with a 40% chance of defeating the trap.

Good. Defeating the trap means "nothing interesting happens".

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[jgsugden]

The problem with requiring 3 checks is that even if your PCs have a 75% chance to pass each check, they only end up with a 40% chance of defeating the trap.

Let's not exagerate. Slightly over 42%, not 40%. .

That is a primary reason why I allow some checks to be passed passively (no roll required there) - and as noted some traps only really require 2 rolls as you bypass, not disarm, them in my system. You can also manage the difficulty with different options for some of these steps. However, PCs do find themselves having to make decisions when dealing with traps in my games.

DM: (After determining the passive perception of Gregor is enough to spot the trap) "As you're walking down the hallway Gregor notices that one of the stones in the ground is slightly raised. It looks like it might be part of a trap."
Gregor: "Probably a pressure plate. I check it out. What check do I make?"
DM: "You can try to use an investigate (int) check to logic it out with no chance of setting it off or a thieves tools (dex) check to try to manipulate it without setting it off to see how it works."
Gregor: "I have a lousy investigate - Marvolo - you're smart. Do you want to check it out? I can help - so you have advantage."
Marvolo: "Yeah, I'll take a look. I ponder this odd stone... 16 and 18."
DM: (Checking her notes on the trap - A DC20 was required to logic it out on investigate without manipulating, but only a DC13 for the thieves tools check): "Yeah - it is a pressure plate, but you're not sure if there are more, or if there is something else to the trap."
Gregor: "OK, I'll poke at it with my tools. Marvolo will assist me with a help action."
Marvolo: "Uhhhh, let's have Meepo do that. I'm going to go around the door and get cover."
Gregor: "..."
Meepo: "Uhhhh... ok."
DM: "OK, Meepo gets right up there and helps Gregor to manipulate the trap while Marvolo hides around the corner."
Marvolo: "...and nibbles on cheese."
DM: "...and nibbles on cheese."
Gregor: "17 and 8 on those checks."
DM: "You're able to lift the plate without setting it off and peak beneath it. There is a pair of vials that will break and mix their contents if you set off the trap. It looks like it'll release poison gas. That will be blown into the room through cracks in the floor. It'll go through the entire hallway."
Gregor: "Can I disable it?"
DM: "Maybe. It doesn't look too hard, but you could also just drop it back down into place and walk around it."
Gregor: "We'll go around. I put it back into place. Wait a second - do I see any evidence there are more of them?"
DM: "Nope. You don't see any others."
Gregor: "Here's hoping there are not any I missed. We go ahead."

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So... When do we get to give feedback on the article?

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[Saeviomagy]

Good. Defeating the trap means "nothing interesting happens".

If defeating a trap means "nothing interesting happens" and you don't like that, then don't make it an option. Don't make it an option that players sink 3 skills into and then tell them they didn't roll well enough.

That said, jgsugden's description shows that the 3 rolls are optional and each one gives an independent benefit (assuming he doesn't do something like trigger the trap on any one failure) which makes things a lot more palatable: decision points for players is what makes a scenario interesting.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

If defeating a trap means "nothing interesting happens" and you don't like that, then don't make it an option. Don't make it an option that players sink 3 skills into and then tell them they didn't roll well enough.

That said, jgsugden's description shows that the 3 rolls are optional and each one gives an independent benefit (assuming he doesn't do something like trigger the trap on any one failure) which makes things a lot more palatable: decision points for players is what makes a scenario interesting.

Huh? I never said people should "sink three skills into it". I just said that a 60% chance of the trap going off sounded "good" to me. I don't run it the way he does, I just understood how he ran it without needing further explanation, and it sounded fun to me.

You took my hyperbole about "nothing" happening too stongly. It's okay to beat traps. It's just IMO (both as a player and DM) USUALLY more fun when they go off.

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[Weiley31]

So I just learned of this UA recently and so far it looks to be very interesting. To the point where I feel like the standard trap rules and disarms from the DMG and what not is used for regular traps. And this UA is used for creating the "boss" encounter version of traps ala the Complex Traps.

The "Dynamic Element" aspect of the Complex traps for this is probably the most intriguing. Honestly I feel like using this alongside the regular version of the trap rules plus the way Monarchies of Mau handles traps and what not is, to me, the best method/combinations of implementing traps.

 

[Parmandur]

So I just learned of this UA recently and so far it looks to be very interesting. To the point where I feel like the standard trap rules and disarms from the DMG and what not is used for regular traps. And this UA is used for creating the "boss" encounter version of traps ala the Complex Traps.

The "Dynamic Element" aspect of the Complex traps for this is probably the most intriguing. Honestly I feel like using this alongside the regular version of the trap rules plus the way Monarchies of Mau handles traps and what not is, to me, the best method/combinations of implementing traps.

I mean, this made it into Xanathar's Guide to Everything?

 

[Weiley31]

I mean, this made it into Xanathar's Guide to Everything?

Oh: I guess I gotta relook at that section in my copy.