• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

[UPDATED] WotC Gives You Some Official 5E Modern Armor!

This took me rather by surprise - WotC has just posted statistics for D&D 5E versions of modern armor types, including leather jackets, tactical vests, forced entry units, and other items straight from d20 Modern. The article is titled "Firearms", but its focus is adding armor to use alongside the existing firearms in the Dungeon Master's Guide.

This took me rather by surprise - WotC has just posted statistics for D&D 5E versions of modern armor types, including leather jackets, tactical vests, forced entry units, and other items straight from d20 Modern. The article is titled "Firearms", but its focus is adding armor to use alongside the existing firearms in the Dungeon Master's Guide.

UPDATE: WotC has just renamed the article from 5E Firearms to My New d20 Modern Campaign.

Find the article here.

modern.jpg
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Chimpy

First Post
Kind of weird. I guess it's nice that WotC are putting some articles out there for people that like to heavily mod their game.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Zaran

Adventurer
I just think we should treat it like every other Behind the Scenes article. It's what one guy uses in his game and encourages the reader to use it or gain inspiration from it. But no one should be going on twitter and asking if tactical body armor should have an armor bonus or why DR was included to the rules.
 



mlund

First Post
The very thought of getting a revised d20 modern system running on the 5E chassis makes me drool.

Seriously. Please. Make this a thing. I'll gladly buy a PHB5E for d20 Modern that's like 2/3 re-skinned reprint.

Marty Lund
 

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
..
So...

Knowing that AC is abstract in D&D, we really can't go with the realistic "if armor = X and weapon fired is from a pistol, ignore all damage, but if fired from a rifle caliber, then no damage is ignored, yada yada yada." That gets too complicated and is too much to remember. So my suggestions?

* No armor gives disadvantage to stealth. each plate is in an individual pocket and it doesn't make any more noise than your regular clothes.
* due to weight and encumbrance, I would give a max DEX bonus of +2 for level III or higher armor. Remember that level III and IV don't weigh that much different or carry different in any appreciative value. They are just made from different materials
* Level II armor gives DR2, Level III gives overall resistance, Level IV gives resistance or DR10, whichever is higher.

And be done with it.
...

thanks for all this...a few things...now that the stimulationist pandora's box is being opened.

-The plating strength only tells about part of the armor. I assume that you can have more plates or less on different parts of your body? Probably easier to go to something that is more descriptive and distinguishes something that is easily concealed vs what a marine might wear vs something riot police in a post apocalyptic movie might wear.

-Speaking of plating...you can also (have a servant) oil your chain or plate mail. I would think the stealth penalty is coming from just trying to move carefully with a lot of bulk. Again, the coverage of the armor as well as the level might be a factor here.

-The level thing is interesting, but what this says to me is that scarcity (ie expense) is also a factor, something the article writer ignores. This would need to be worked back in, either through cost or some other mechanism (armor that combines kevlar and ceramics is like magic...)

-Then there is damage avoidance (DA) vs damage reduction (DR). You seem to endorse the damage reduction approach.

DR is often portrayed as more realistic then DA, but DA is easier, as it does not involve an additional math step.

DA is easier. But in terms of realism, DR is good in someways, but doesn't really capture the case where a light weapon can bypass armor all together, a fact which is really relevant if you talking about partial modern armors. E.g. you attack someone with high DR using a dagger, or a .22 and may have no chance of overcoming the DR, or barely hurt them, when in practice you could hit them in the face, or somewhere else unarmored. On top of this, when you stop thinking about direct hits and more about grazes and hits at an angle, then a major thing armor will do is convert these to misses or close equivalents, even from higher caliber weapons. DA is a good approximation for this.

If you really want DR, you can deal with some of this through other mechanics, like critical hits or "exploding" damage die. Another approach is variable DR (d4 DR, d6 DR etc). I think a game designer named Mike Mearls came up with a version of that, about 10 years ago.
 


Sacrosanct

Legend
thanks for all this...a few things...now that the stimulationist pandora's box is being opened.

-The plating strength only tells about part of the armor. I assume that you can have more plates or less on different parts of your body? Probably easier to go to something that is more descriptive and distinguishes something that is easily concealed vs what a marine might wear vs something riot police in a post apocalyptic movie might wear.

Yes, you can wear level IV in your chest and back pockets, or in groin and leg pockets, etc. In D&D terms, you'd have to handle it like something like a plate breastplate vs plate mail. When you start getting into all the different variations of where the armor can be worn, it overcomplicates a game like D&D

-Speaking of plating...you can also (have a servant) oil your chain or plate mail. I would think the stealth penalty is coming from just trying to move carefully with a lot of bulk. Again, the coverage of the armor as well as the level might be a factor here.

I disagree. no matter how much you oil chain or plate (which is almost never done in D&D), it's still fairly shiny and still makes noise. With modern body armor, each individual plate is not only matte black, but it's in a cloth pocket. I can see encumbrance affected Dexterity bonuses, but I don't see how it impacts hiding ability.
-The level thing is interesting, but what this says to me is that scarcity (ie expense) is also a factor, something the article writer ignores. This would need to be worked back in, either through cost or some other mechanism (armor that combines kevlar and ceramics is like magic...)

-Then there is damage avoidance (DA) vs damage reduction (DR). You seem to endorse the damage reduction approach.

DR is often portrayed as more realistic then DA, but DA is easier, as it does not involve an additional math step.

DA is easier. But in terms of realism, DR is good in someways, but doesn't really capture the case where a light weapon can bypass armor all together, a fact which is really relevant if you talking about partial modern armors. E.g. you attack someone with high DR using a dagger, or a .22 and may have no chance of overcoming the DR, or barely hurt them, when in practice you could hit them in the face, or somewhere else unarmored. On top of this, when you stop thinking about direct hits and more about grazes and hits at an angle, then a major thing armor will do is convert these to misses or close equivalents, even from higher caliber weapons. DA is a good approximation for this.

If you really want DR, you can deal with some of this through other mechanics, like critical hits or "exploding" damage die. Another approach is variable DR (d4 DR, d6 DR etc). I think a game designer named Mike Mearls came up with a version of that, about 10 years ago.

If you're going to look at D&D terms, we have to acknowledge that AC is an abstract number that includes avoidance AND resistance. So I suppose you could do either/or. To keep things simple, I'd probably do away with DR and just give higher AC values.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Here's a visual representation of what I was talking about when you try to emulate too much realism in D&D with body armor. There are just SOOOOOOO many variables. Here is a 1/4" steel plate shot at close range by a 9mm and .223 (or 5.56 NATO). The 9mm barely made a mark. No dents or anything. The .223 went right though like it was nothing. In order to be "real", you have to factor in bullet weight, velocity, range to target, thickness and composition of armor, etc. It's just too much for D&D style game.

View attachment 67870
 

Grainger

Explorer
This is the point where I flip out over the inaccuracies of the table :p

And there are plenty...

Well, it's not like D&D's standard armour or weaponry roster (or coinage, or representation of medieval society for that matter) bears that much relation to reality anyway.
 

Remove ads

Remove ads

Top