[UPDATED] WotC Gives You Some Official 5E Modern Armor!

This took me rather by surprise - WotC has just posted statistics for D&D 5E versions of modern armor types, including leather jackets, tactical vests, forced entry units, and other items straight from d20 Modern. The article is titled "Firearms", but its focus is adding armor to use alongside the existing firearms in the Dungeon Master's Guide.

UPDATE: WotC has just renamed the article from 5E Firearms to My New d20 Modern Campaign.

Find the article here.

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[Gilwen]

not really I've always thought DR the better fit for armor. I believe the Heavy Armor master feat has DR as a concept. I believe it reduces damage by 3 against bashing, slashing, piercing damage from non-magical weapons. I can't remember if it specifically says DR in it and I don't have my books at the moment.

Is anyone else bothered by his inclusion of damage reduction, it doesn't exist in 5th edition as a concept. He doesn't explain what it is. Some people coming into 5th edition will be very confused and have no idea. This does seem like just a random blog or forum post in the house rules section of a fan site.

 

[CM]

For those who want a bit more simulation when it comes to firearms vs. armor, I used the following system for my 4e Fallout game and will probably do something similar if I run a 5e modern game:

Each weapon has an Armor Penetration (AP) value (from 0 to 4) and each armor has an Armor Value (AV, from 1 to 5) and a Damage Reduction (DR) value (anywhere from 1 to 15 or more).

If the weapon's AP exceeds the armor's AV, then the attack deals full damage. If the AV is higher, then the attack's damage is reduced by the DR amount. It was pretty fast in play.

Small-caliber pistol rounds had an AP of 0. .357, .44, and .50 rounds were AP 1, 2, and 3 respectively. Shotgun slugs and rifle rounds ranged from AP 1 (20 gauge) to 2 (12 gauge). Rifle rounds started at AP2 for 5.56 and .243, to 3 for .308 and 4 for .50 BMG. Rifles that used pistol rounds (.357 or .44), generally added +1 to the AP.


Ammo types, in order of increasing expense:

• Buckshot shells added +2 attack bonus but reduced AP to 0.
• Wadcutter rounds added Brutal 1.
• +P rounds added Brutal 1 and High Crit.
• Hollow-point rounds added Brutal 2 and High Crit but reduced AP by 1.
• AP rounds (generally only available in rifle rounds) increased AP by 1.

And now, back to your regularly-scheduled topic...

 

[Sacrosanct]

Small-caliber pistol rounds had an AP of 0. .357, .44, and .50 rounds were AP 1, 2, and 3 respectively. Shotgun slugs and rifle rounds ranged from AP 1 (20 gauge) to 2 (12 gauge). Rifle rounds started at AP2 for 5.56 and .243, to 3 for .308 and 4 for .50 BMG. Rifles that used pistol rounds (.357 or .44), generally added +1 to the AP.

Pedantic warning!!! Take FWIW

You have been warned

OK, so...I see a common mistake in your list a lot of people make: assuming penetration is tied to grain weight. Pistol calibers don't have much actual penetration difference based on caliber. As a general rule, penetration is based off of velocity and bullet type, not necessarily size. A .44 will have very little additional penetration over a 9mm. It does more damage, but penetration difference is almost negligible when taken in the context of ALL bullet types. A .50 cal pistol round won't have near the penetration of a .223. See my image above of a .223 compared to a 9mm to a 1/4" steel plate. I don't see any pistol round penetrating what a rifle round can do, simply based on velocity and grain weight/bullet type. Also, 1/2' steel will stop a .223, but won't stop a .308/7.62 NATO round.

If your goal is simulation and only have a range of 1-4 for penetration values, then the largest pistol caliber shouldn't be more than 1 more than smaller calibers. A 1 for .357 and smaller, and a 2 for .357 to .50 would be my suggestion. A 3 for .225/5.56 and a 4 for .308/7.62.

 

[Dire Bare]

I'm afraid you missed it in the PHB.

Try the Heavy Armour Master feat, DR3 against piercing, slashing and bludgeoning.

Oops! Nevermind then!

Technically, the term "Damage reduction" does not appear in the PHB, IIRC.

However, there are several things that provide DR effectively. The example I used earlier in the "Heavy Armour Master" feat goes "While you are wearing heavy armour, bludgeoning, peircing and slashing damage that you take from non-magical weapons is reduced by 3"

The chapter on Damage and Healing ("Damage Resistance and Vulnerability", page 197) also mentions an example where the player has "A magical aura that reduces all damage by 5", using that to show how to apply damage reduction effects along with resistance.

The Monk's Deflect Missiles ability gives them some variable damage resistance (use their reaction to reduce the attack's damage by 1d10 + Dex mod + Monk level).

There are probably other examples - those are a few I vaguely recalled seeing it and flicked to.

Basically, the 3e style DR notation doesn't work in 5e, nor does "DR" as a named concept... but damage reduction is alive and well.

Okay, I take back my "nevermind"!

While certain 5E rules mimic DR, it does not exist as a concept in 5E. So, having a sidebar about adding DR to 5E in Helmick's article would remain a good thing to do.

 

[CM]

Pedantic warning!!! Take FWIW

You may very well be correct, but the numbers were drawn from the in-game statistics for weapons and armor in Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas' game engine, so we can foist the blame on Bethesda for that.

 

[Dan Helmick]

Hey everyone.

I see a few questions regarding my shorthand term of "DR" in the article. I'm trying not to laugh out loud as I type this, so please forgive the occasional typo.

This article is part of a larger doc I wrote some months ago, for a campaign I'm running set in a modern, urban fantasy setting. A few weeks ago, someone asked those of us in the department if we wanted to write articles about our own campaigns. That someone heard that I was tinkering with a modern ruleset, and asked me if I would be interested in contributing. So what you're seeing is part of a larger doc that has been dissected into article-length features. Due to the word count of the feature, much expository text was cut, by me, for the sake of brevity. The DR bit was just shorthand to explain that damage of the type listed is reduced by the armor in question. I had hoped that this was easy enough to figure out given the sentence following the chart, but I can see that it has confused 3e aficionados. My apologies.

Regarding armor: I had hoped, again in error, that those interested in the article would go ahead and assume that pieces such as the tactical vest had armor plates in order to confer AC bonuses and damage resistances. A tactical vest is just nylon. Again, descriptions were cut for the sake of space, so you got me there. It was more important to me that everything fit in a table that was easy to reference. Most armors in the table were taken from the d20 Modern Corebook and the d20 Future book.

Regarding simulationism (and lack thereof): It is more important to me to preserve game balance than to worry obsessively about varying armor types, penetration values, etc. This article is simply a hack allowing the reader to inject modern armor into a D&D game if they so choose. I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel or create a whole new game. (Not that I wouldn't, but that is really not up to me!) If simulation is more important to you than the pick-up-and-play sensibilities of 5e D&D, I suggest you pick up Phoenix Command and give that a go. It should fulfill all of your simulation needs regarding firearm-based combat.

Yours,
Dan H.

P.S. If you'd like to see more articles in this series, go ahead and let the WotC D&D team know. Writing articles for the site is a lot of fun, and I'm happy to share my 5e Modern campaign with fellow fans of urban fantasy. D&D fans are the best fans in the world! (And sometimes the most bloodthirsty... but I love ya anyway. )

 

[Sacrosanct]

Regarding armor: I had hoped, again in error, that those interested in the article would go ahead and assume that pieces such as the tactical vest had armor plates in order to confer AC bonuses and damage resistances. A tactical vest is just nylon. Again, descriptions were cut for the sake of space, so you got me there. It was more important to me that everything fit in a table that was easy to reference. Most armors in the table were taken from the d20 Modern Corebook and the d20 Future book.

Regarding simulationism (and lack thereof): It is more important to me to preserve game balance than to worry obsessively about varying armor types, penetration values, etc. This article is simply a hack allowing the reader to inject modern armor into a D&D game if they so choose. I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel or create a whole new game. (Not that I wouldn't, but that is really not up to me!) If simulation is more important to you than the pick-up-and-play sensibilities of 5e D&D, I suggest you pick up Phoenix Command and give that a go. It should fulfill all of your simulation needs regarding firearm-based combat.

Yours,
Dan H.
)

FWIW, I agree with you 100%. I've mentioned a few times already that trying to capture "realism" often leads to way too much complication that most gamers don't want, and D&D especially isn't set up to play that way. My initial post was a bit tongue in cheek, hence the emoticon . I admit I do like to tinker around and evaluate things like realism and simulation, but I never argue for it in heavy handed seriousness, especially in the context of D&D.

 

[Sacrosanct]

You may very well be correct, but the numbers were drawn from the in-game statistics for weapons and armor in Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas' game engine, so we can foist the blame on Bethesda for that.

Unlike my pic above, this is one I grabbed off the internet and not my own testing. This is a .223 normal ball round, and a .223 AP round comparison. But you can see the difference between various handgun rounds vs. a .223 to illustrate how they are in totally different classes

If anyone is curious, there is this video that actually does a good job showing how modern body armor is constructed and carried, and what it can protect against.

 

[Patrick McGill]

Hey everyone.

I see a few questions regarding my shorthand term of "DR" in the article. I'm trying not to laugh out loud as I type this, so please forgive the occasional typo.

This article is part of a larger doc I wrote some months ago, for a campaign I'm running set in a modern, urban fantasy setting. A few weeks ago, someone asked those of us in the department if we wanted to write articles about our own campaigns. That someone heard that I was tinkering with a modern ruleset, and asked me if I would be interested in contributing. So what you're seeing is part of a larger doc that has been dissected into article-length features. Due to the word count of the feature, much expository text was cut, by me, for the sake of brevity. The DR bit was just shorthand to explain that damage of the type listed is reduced by the armor in question. I had hoped that this was easy enough to figure out given the sentence following the chart, but I can see that it has confused 3e aficionados. My apologies.

Regarding armor: I had hoped, again in error, that those interested in the article would go ahead and assume that pieces such as the tactical vest had armor plates in order to confer AC bonuses and damage resistances. A tactical vest is just nylon. Again, descriptions were cut for the sake of space, so you got me there. It was more important to me that everything fit in a table that was easy to reference. Most armors in the table were taken from the d20 Modern Corebook and the d20 Future book.

Regarding simulationism (and lack thereof): It is more important to me to preserve game balance than to worry obsessively about varying armor types, penetration values, etc. This article is simply a hack allowing the reader to inject modern armor into a D&D game if they so choose. I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel or create a whole new game. (Not that I wouldn't, but that is really not up to me!) If simulation is more important to you than the pick-up-and-play sensibilities of 5e D&D, I suggest you pick up Phoenix Command and give that a go. It should fulfill all of your simulation needs regarding firearm-based combat.

Yours,
Dan H.

P.S. If you'd like to see more articles in this series, go ahead and let the WotC D&D team know. Writing articles for the site is a lot of fun, and I'm happy to share my 5e Modern campaign with fellow fans of urban fantasy. D&D fans are the best fans in the world! (And sometimes the most bloodthirsty... but I love ya anyway. )

Hey Dan! Thanks for the article, I've found it very useful already. I do look forward to future installments. You should ask WotC to let us comment directly on articles if you can, lol.

 

[Kramodlog]

I just realized a WotC employee just got out of the cone of silence and posted on a forum.

*faints*