Using Ready to get out of the way ?

[Hypersmurf]

I just realized why you think that's different than I do - at our table a run doesn't become a "Run" unless he moves over 2 times his movement in a straight line. Until he does that, its a double move. And a charge doesn't become a "Charge" until he moves up to 2 times his movement and attacks. In effect, we don't use action declarations.

But if you're Running, you lose your Dex bonus; if you're Charging, you take double damage from someone who's used a Ready action to set a spear.

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The dwarf has a Readied action with his set spear to attack me when I'm in range.

I have a move of 20 feet.

If I attack the goblin, I'm charging. If I carry on north up the corridor, I'm running. If I stop in front of the goblin, I'm double-moving.

But if you don't know what action I'm taking until I hit the 40 foot mark, how is the dwarf's attack resolved?

Do I take the double damage for a charge? Do I lose my Dex bonus for a Run?

A double move 40 feet takes my entire round. But if at the 40 foot mark I suddenly decide that I haven't been hustling, I've actually been running, it's not the end of my turn? I can move another 20 feet, even though my movement up 'til that point was otherwise identical?

What about the Withdraw action? Say there was another dwarf beside me. Does he get no AoO, because I might have been using the Withdraw action, even if I end up charging the goblin?

By the rules, you can't Charge unless you take the full round action, "Charge". I can't take a Move action and then change my mind and make it part of a Charge. I have to Charge.

The only exception is the Full Attack action, whereby you can specifically elect, after your first attack, to swap your remaining attacks for a Move action. But that's because there's a special rule to cover it. You still have to take the Full Attack action if you want the option of making more attacks. If you take the Attack action, you don't have the option of changing your mind and carrying on with a Full Attack. You have to start with a Full Attack, and then maybe change your mind after the first attack.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus]

That's pretty much what we do Enk.

 

[RigaMortus]

Not sure I am following you Hype... If I move 40' and attack the dwarf, obviously it is a charge. If he had his spear set against my charge, then I'd take double damage.

If I just move 40' and do nothing else, then I did a double move. No reason, or incentive, to consider it a Run. If I, for some reason, want to make it a Run I would have declared that before hand.

And obviously if I move more than twice my movement in a straight line, it's going to be a Run.

I don't see where the confusion or problem lies...

 

[Mallus]

Ready an action to 5' step in and attack when the Polearm twink attacks me.

Polearm guy steps forward, targets his attack, swings *ready action goes off* and finishes his swing but the square he targeted is no longer occupied. He used his MEA to close the distance, and his Standard action to attack. So his round is finished, yeah?

Speaking as a polearm twink... that's just silly. In any of my games, the Ready-guy would act first, move his 5 ft, then the Polearm guy would pursue him and smack him with his smacking stick. Now if there was some reason the Polearm-guy couldn't react to the Ready-guy [say, like he was charging and full of momentum and stuff], I'd say fine. Or if he were a mage who could D-door or telelport...

Or were you kidding?

 

[Enkhidu]

Just to clear up confusion - I'm not saying (and haven't yet said) that my group's method is the right one, or even one that follows the rules as written. It's most defnititely not. It's simply an alternative that makes our gaming lives a whole heck of a lot easier.

That said, we handle your above example through "retroactive action" (note the small "a", because these are not Actions in the Full, Move, Standard, or Free sense of the term). In the example you gave, the dwarf is going to get his attack pretty much no matter what, its simply a matter of modifiers, so when the attack comes, we roll the appropriate dice. Then, if the actions taken turn out to create a situation where the modifiers would be different and it would have played a factor, they are taken into account - maybe this means that someone who got by scot free all of the sudden takes damage, but since it all happens within the confines of that PC's initiative, its never really been a problem for us.

 

[two]

Speaking as a polearm twink... that's just silly. In any of my games, the Ready-guy would act first, move his 5 ft, then the Polearm guy would pursue him and smack him with his smacking stick. Now if there was some reason the Polearm-guy couldn't react to the Ready-guy [say, like he was charging and full of momentum and stuff], I'd say fine. Or if he were a mage who could D-door or telelport...

Or were you kidding?

I think he's serious -- and it's perferctly legal.

As the enemy blade approaches you step back and attack yourself. (ready action goes off).

The enemy has moved and used an attack (standard) which failed, because you were not there. Rather, he attacks an empty square. So, his attack is over. It's going to be occasionally effective; let them have their fun.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That said, we handle your above example through "retroactive action" (note the small "a", because these are not Actions in the Full, Move, Standard, or Free sense of the term). In the example you gave, the dwarf is going to get his attack pretty much no matter what, its simply a matter of modifiers, so when the attack comes, we roll the appropriate dice. Then, if the actions taken turn out to create a situation where the modifiers would be different and it would have played a factor, they are taken into account - maybe this means that someone who got by scot free all of the sudden takes damage, but since it all happens within the confines of that PC's initiative, its never really been a problem for us.

So let's say I have a Dex bonus of +3. I move past the dwarf; he makes an AoO; he misses by 2. I carry on moving... and move past the limit of a double move.

"Wait!" says the dwarf. "That means he was running... so he didn't have his Dex bonus! My attack hit! That's 15 damage, plus my Knockdown feat... you're prone!"

"Okay," I say. "If I'm prone, then I've only moved 30 feet. I haven't exceeded my double move limit, so I wasn't Running. So your AoO missed, so I'm not prone."

See the problem with retroaction?

I'm not suggesting you have to specify every detail of your Move action... but you have to state whether you're taking a Move action or a Charge action, when you start to move... not halfway through. Because even that first five feet of movement is performed in a different way.

If I'm thirty feet from side-passage off a long corridor, I can either move up to the intersection (Move action) and then decide what I want to do with my Standard action (make another Move action further up the corridor; make a Move action up the side passage; use an Attack action to shoot the orc lurking up the side passage)... or I can decide to Run up the long corridor (Run action).

If I'm running, and I see the orc as I pass the side passage, I can stop... but I've used a Full Round action, and can't shoot at him. Because I wasn't hustling, I was Running, and those thirty feet that I moved were covered completely differently to how I would have done it with a Move action.

"The orc moves up the corridor."
"Is he just hustling, or is he running?"
"You can't tell. You'll have to wait and see if he moves more than sixty feet."

Does that really make sense? Can't you look at someone and tell whether they're jogging or running in the space of a few steps?

-Hyp.

 

[Enkhidu]

Hey, I never said (and still don't say) that this is a method for everyone - it works for us, warts and all (and yes, we do know the problems with retroaction and ended up using this system anyway simply because it speeds up combat for us and makes for a more fun experience - one of the first things we learned about playing 3e was when to say when on in depth rules).

And Hyp, you know better than to use the "does that make sense" argument in relation a turn based combat system. D&D combat is all about making compromises between playability and reality. We just chose to use a compromise that some don't find palatable. I'm OK with that.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And Hyp, you know better than to use the "does that make sense" argument in relation a turn based combat system. D&D combat is all about making compromises between playability and reality.

Yup, but to me it almost seems like:

"He casts a spell. Roll a Will save."
"I got a 39 on my Spellcraft - do I know what spell he's casting?"
"It depends. If you fail your save, it's Hold Person. If you make it, it's Magic Missile."

You need to decide what action you're taking before you take it. Are you taking the Move action, the Run action, or the Charge action?

How you move might change over the course of that Move action. How you Charge can't, because you need to charge at a specific opponent, who has to be chosen before it can be determined if the Charge is legal.

-Hyp.

 

[Mallus]

I think he's serious -- and it's perferctly legal.

I can see it being legal, I just can't see ever allowing it.

I understand the point of Ready is to grant an interupt action, but I think you need some common sense guidelines about when and where the it can be used. I don't see how any combatant [low dex, high enc, whatever] can use Ready to react --just in the nick of time-- to beat a melee attack. To react so fast and with such precise timing that their attacker has absolutely no chance to adjust their swing...

Its just seems like a great way to remind your players that this is just a big old board game, not a grand, cinamatic adventure.