D&D 5E USING Variable spell-casting Ability Stats

[GAMERSAVATAR]

Just looking over the crazy heavy Charisma based spell casting classes kinda annoyed me, so I started thinking.
One nerfing Int, to only wizard (Ek) , kinda seems off especially being a old school D&D all editions... so since I'm starting a campaign latter next month i wanted to go through the classes race etc to see what needed adjustments. but i want to throw this out for other perspectives and maybe any oversight to this. First off I feel Warlock could/should be Int based, look at its skill choices for one and the suggested background, Im also considering giving the player the choice at creation between Charisma or Int. This can be applied to other classes to and would like to see discussions on this also. And Id adjust in the warlock in this example to having, int and wisdom save, instead of wisdom charisma.

 

[Awesome Adam]

Wizard studies the arcane to master it (INT)
Cleric has is fueled by faith (WIS)
Sorcerer's power is inherent and strength of character directs it (CHA)

The Warlock does not need to study the arcane. (INT)
The Warlock is not fueled by zelous faith. (WIS)
The Warlock's magic are fueled by what he can convince a supernatural being to lend him (CHA)

That being said, I don't think switching it to INT would break the game in any meaningful way, and would open up a multiclass possibility for Wizard.

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

I was thinking of making the casting stat key off of the Patron (Fey and Angelic gets Wisdom, Fiends get Charisma, Otherworldly horrors get Intelligence) and create custom spell lists and invocations for each (plus possibly alternate saving throws and skills if you take it at first level.)

I am not sure if it is worth the effort, but I can see why people might start looking in that direction. Making sure that the patrons are balanced with each other and with other classes for multiclassing purposes.

 

[Illithidbix]

Easy to overlook but both the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster both use INT, so that is three spell casting classes that use INT, even if two are tertiary 1/3level progression subclass casters.
(Mage Hand Legerdemain is one of my favourite class abilities out there.)

Warlocks are an odd case as I can see arguments for them either Charisma or Intelligence as their spellcasting stat, whether you consider themselves scholars of forbidden knowledge that is indescribable and blasts the sanity of those who etc etc non-euclidean etc etc
Or as bargainers who dealt with inhuman powers and who won ... maybe.... or it seems like they got a good deal... at the moment...

Back in the day (2nd Edition AD&D) almost everything was Intelligence (arcane spellcasters) or Wisdom (Divine) based spell casting. Even Bards used INT as their spellcasting stat.

In 3E the core PHB introduced the idea of Bards and Sorcerers using charisma as a primary attribute.
Paladins used Wisdom instead of Charisma for actual spellcasting.
With a few odd abilities that Paladins and Clerics got that came off Charisma (turning undead and lay on hands).

 

[GAMERSAVATAR]

I was thinking of making the casting stat key off of the Patron (Fey and Angelic gets Wisdom, Fiends get Charisma, Otherworldly horrors get Intelligence) and create custom spell lists and invocations for each (plus possibly alternate saving throws and skills if you take it at first level.)

I am not sure if it is worth the effort, but I can see why people might start looking in that direction. Making sure that the patrons are balanced with each other and with other classes for multiclassing purposes.

Brilliant idea i love it and will use that as an option for players! Also slightly of topic but about warlocks, i kinda don't like the need to use a invocation for the subs, i dont like it when its kinda a forced "choice" Are you really not gonna take the tome,blade @5th,chain invocation...im thinking i may just include it at 3rd level (or5th) when they take it. Also kinda tough not to take agonizing blast, it kinda makes the class, again not a real choice. Don't like when u have to nerf your self for cool roleplaying abilities, not just about optimum build either its kinda bread and butter stuff. but i digress off topic abit...

Also pondering Sorcerer from rereading the fluff about them in class description, its your just born RAW MAGIC with it etc... Im imagining a Con. based option, doesn't help with skills but does con saves concentration( your born with it easier to not loss concentration?), its your vitality that allows the magic to run through you... i know Sorcerer has from what i recall always been charisma based...but not sure why strength of personality would better enable natural magic. I like this idea but there may be some pit falls I'm missing.

Another reason Im exploring Variant abilities, is to see what racial mixes this can open up. I understand any race can be any class, but be nice to use it natural racial nature to support its class.


Looking for more suggestions good stuff so far.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Switching warlock over to Intelligence, as long as you want to go with the implied flavor adjustments, is probably the conceptually easiest switch to make of any full caster class. I don't think it's necessary, but if I were playing in your game and that was a house rule it wouldn't bother me one bit, and would make it easier to go with certain warlock concepts.

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

Also pondering Sorcerer from rereading the fluff about them in class description, its your just born RAW MAGIC with it etc... Im imagining a Con. based option, doesn't help with skills but does con saves concentration( your born with it easier to not loss concentration?), its your vitality that allows the magic to run through you... i know Sorcerer has from what i recall always been charisma based...but not sure why strength of personality would better enable natural magic. I like this idea but there may be some pit falls I'm missing.

They are a bit of the way there already since they pick up Con as a saving throw if they take Sorcerer at first level. I played around a bit trying to make a Con based sorcerer that burned hit points instead of Sorcery Points for metamagic type effects. It also had the ability to burn spell slots for hit points (like the Circle of Moon Druid in Combat Wildshape), but would lose Flexible casting so couldn't create slots with hit points. I haven't really got the math figured out to see how much the metamagic options should be worth in terms of hp loss. Obviously you can't do 1 to 1 for sorcery points, I think most of the options would have to be keyed off of slot level. You may have problems in campaigns where you have a lot of healing from either items or fellow casters.

That may not be what you are looking for. Sorcerers are the class that look like they should have a lot more flexibility than they actually do in concept. I am not quite sure how they ended up quite so narrow as they did. I find that anytime I start to design options for them I am tempted to rebuild them scratch from class. I would love to see what you come up with there if you can open up options without being clearly superior to the current Sorcerers.

 

[Lanliss]

I like the Con for sorcerer, and mentioned it in a different thread somewhere. If anyone in my current campaign chooses a sorc at some point, I think I might simply switch the spell casting stat to Con, and see how that plays out. Would probably put heavy focus on Dex and Con, and not much else, but could be interesting.

 

[airistal]

Also pondering Sorcerer from rereading the fluff about them in class description, its your just born RAW MAGIC with it etc... Im imagining a Con. based option, doesn't help with skills but does con saves concentration( your born with it easier to not loss concentration?), its your vitality that allows the magic to run through you... i know Sorcerer has from what i recall always been charisma based...but not sure why strength of personality would better enable natural magic. I like this idea but there may be some pit falls I'm missing.

Charisma also covers the concept of knowing your self, understanding where one part of you ends and an other begins, and recognizing something as separate from your self (intellectually, physically, morally).

 

[DND_Reborn]

We use CON for Sorcerers just to detract from the CHA-craze in 5E.