TwoSix
"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
I have to say, I like the idea of 5e ending with Gary Gygax waking up in bed next to Suzanne Pleshette, realizing that all of WotC D&D was just a dream.
D&D 5E Vecna Adventure Next Year and Obilesks *SPOILERS*
- Thread starter Henadic Theologian
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TwoSix
"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
I think this is a semantic point, really. Each plane is considered its own "universe". Any combination of planes is a "multiverse".
Any one table's fiction, assuming they're playing within the constraints of published D&D, is part of the "greater multiverse", or the multiverse of multiverses which are all (I think) assumed to be infinite offshoots of the First World.
And of course, if you don't want your table's fiction to be part of that greater multiverse, it simply isn't. Your table, your fiction.
bedir than
Full Moon Storyteller
So I'm very late to this, but being nominated for sound editing or lighting is not at all relevant to the top line nominations that Andor got for the quality of the story.
Maybe I made the mistake of assuming we were talking about the Star Wars series as relates to required deep metaplot knowledge and how that impacts popularity.
Being great at technical stuff is completely unrelated to the issues we were discussing
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
Yeah, no. Let's leave aside that of the eight nominations that Andor received, most of them were for technical issues (i.e. outstanding cinematography, outstanding music composition, outstanding main title theme music, outstanding sound editing, and outstanding special visual effects).
The only ones that went to quality of the story were "outstanding drama series," "outstanding writing for a drama series," and "outstanding directing for a drama series" (and even then, it can be argued that last one is more technical than story-focused).
Now, your implication is that there's a correlation (or even causation) that those have something to do with a paucity of (reliance on) lore, and so far you haven't demonstrated that at all, beyond your unsubstantiated claim that a lack of lore in Andor is the reason it received those nominations (and even then, that's presuming we take your claim that Andor is lore-light as a given, which @Divine1943 correctly noted as being suspect).
That implication, however, is still dispelled by the nominations that other such shows received. The Clone Wars was nominated for an "outstanding writing team" Emmy (unless you want to say that "writing team" has nothing to do with the writing, i.e. the plot). The Mandalorian has multiple nominations for "outstanding drama" and "outstanding writing." Obi-Wan Kenobi was nominated for "outstanding limited or anthology series," which strikes me as being comparable to "outstanding drama" in that the plot is a factor (and that series was especially lore-heavy), etc.
So in other words, your suggestions that Andor is somehow peak Star Wars writing and that the Emmy's reflect that and that it's putative lack of lore is the reason for that all strike me as three shaky premises with very little to connect them together.
dave2008
Legend
However, that is a made up definition of universe that could equally be called a multiverse. The scientific usage of "universe" and "multiverse" doesn't really cover the D&D cosmos. As multiverse is this less scientific and more philosophic term it is probably the more accurate term for the D&D cosmos. Calling the D&D cosmos a "Universe" flies in the face of the scientific definition, so that bothers me personally. Now, it does fit the sort of pulp-culture definition of universe, as in the "MC universe," or the "Monsterverse," or the "DC universe," etc. So I can see it being used like that, but calling the D&D cosmos a multiverse is not wrong.
PS - Sorry your post as to long and I'm at work. I bascially stopped reading after the quoted portion.
@TwoSix @dave2008 You are both right in that this is pretty much just a semantical debate on what the definitions of 'universe' and 'multiverse' are in relation to the D&D Cosmology. But I do think it is a debate worth having, because having definitions we all for the most part agree on across the community just makes for easier communication.
I for one don't like the idea that we call a particular player's Prime and alternate Primes + Inner Planes + Outer Planes a 'Multiverse'. Because that flies in the face of both what 'Multi' implies, and the terminology we already use to describe these places. The Prime and its variants are not one 'universe', with the Inner Planes each being their own 'universe' and the Outer Planes as well being their own 'universes', which combined would be a 'multiverse'. If they were, then we (and Gary Gygax) would have been calling them 'universes' from the get-go, but we don't. They've always been called 'Planes'. So at the barest minimum, a particular player's cosmology would be called a 'Multiplane' if anything, not 'multiverse'. But then again... we also already have a name for this combination of planes... called a 'Cosmology'. That has always been the used term for a particular campaign's grander planar setting. So for my money... the term 'Multiverse' should not be anywhere near a single player's world/setting/cosmology. One player's setting of planes is a Cosmology, not a Multiverse.
Because as I mentioned, the term 'multiverse' is meant to denote that it includes EVERYTHING. Every real thing, every fake thing, every alternative thing, every variant thing. A Universe is infinite. And there are also infinite numbers of Universes. And that's what D&D on the whole is-- a game that can hold an infinite number of alternative game worlds and game Cosmologies. And that's why the term 'D&D Multiverse' should only be used as the descriptor of every D&D game ever in existence... all a part of the great whole of Dungeons & Dragons, in my opinion. And because a 'multiverse of multiverses' just doesn't make sense.
I for one don't like the idea that we call a particular player's Prime and alternate Primes + Inner Planes + Outer Planes a 'Multiverse'. Because that flies in the face of both what 'Multi' implies, and the terminology we already use to describe these places. The Prime and its variants are not one 'universe', with the Inner Planes each being their own 'universe' and the Outer Planes as well being their own 'universes', which combined would be a 'multiverse'. If they were, then we (and Gary Gygax) would have been calling them 'universes' from the get-go, but we don't. They've always been called 'Planes'. So at the barest minimum, a particular player's cosmology would be called a 'Multiplane' if anything, not 'multiverse'. But then again... we also already have a name for this combination of planes... called a 'Cosmology'. That has always been the used term for a particular campaign's grander planar setting. So for my money... the term 'Multiverse' should not be anywhere near a single player's world/setting/cosmology. One player's setting of planes is a Cosmology, not a Multiverse.
Because as I mentioned, the term 'multiverse' is meant to denote that it includes EVERYTHING. Every real thing, every fake thing, every alternative thing, every variant thing. A Universe is infinite. And there are also infinite numbers of Universes. And that's what D&D on the whole is-- a game that can hold an infinite number of alternative game worlds and game Cosmologies. And that's why the term 'D&D Multiverse' should only be used as the descriptor of every D&D game ever in existence... all a part of the great whole of Dungeons & Dragons, in my opinion. And because a 'multiverse of multiverses' just doesn't make sense.
MonsterEnvy
Legend
You are assuming a lot about something we know so little about.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I admire how any given topic here makes you think of how MTG settings can be incorporated into the Great Wheel.
"What's the best cheese?"
"THEY HAVE CHEESE IN MTG, OMG!"
dave2008
Legend
I agree, but I disagree on what you call a Universe. Quick caveat, I haven't given this a lot of thought. What I proposing in the following is generally how I have understood D&D's cosmos or at least how I have imagined it.
To me a universe is any reality that adheres to one set of principles. Wherever you are in the Prime physics, magic, etc. works the same. That is one universe. If you go to the Ethereal or Astral or any other plane really, physics and magic could and sometimes do work differently. They are separate universes. So to me the D&D cosmos is a "multiverse" because it is a collection of these universes.
Anyway, that is how I see it.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Boy, this adventure, if it really does half of what you all are speculating, is going to thrill one half of the fanbase and utterly alienate and baffle the other half.
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