Vital spot OR Can a halfling sneak attack a human?
- Thread starter Dark Dragon
- Start date
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
I will give the DM the benefit of the doubt, but I think he should actually try learning and using the 3e rules as written before making drastic changes based on habits from 2e.
There are a number of rules from 1e/2e that seem to follow good common sense that don't transfer well to 3e. That's why the designers left them out.
As for sneak attacks, they seemed too powerful and too easy when I first started playing 3e. My conclusion after more experience is that they are necessary for Rogues to be able to contribute their fair share to combat. It really isn't all that easy to land more than 2 or 3 sneaks attacks in a combat without great risk or heavy magical help from the wizard.
Old style 1e/2e DMs may feel more comfortable with Rogues that suck up a full share of gp and xp without carrying their weight. I, for one, do not miss those "good ole days" at all.
There are a number of rules from 1e/2e that seem to follow good common sense that don't transfer well to 3e. That's why the designers left them out.
As for sneak attacks, they seemed too powerful and too easy when I first started playing 3e. My conclusion after more experience is that they are necessary for Rogues to be able to contribute their fair share to combat. It really isn't all that easy to land more than 2 or 3 sneaks attacks in a combat without great risk or heavy magical help from the wizard.
Old style 1e/2e DMs may feel more comfortable with Rogues that suck up a full share of gp and xp without carrying their weight. I, for one, do not miss those "good ole days" at all.
Dr. Zoom
First Post
In S&S, page 86, there is a short section on sneak attacks. Nowhere in this section is there a rule that says you cannot sneak attack creatures who have larger size categories than you. However, in the following section on garrote attacks, it does say that you cannot make a garrote attack on any creature that is 2 or more size categories larger than you, unless it is lying down or you are attacking from above, etc. According to this section, then, your elf could garrote the troll, but the halfling could not. But there is no rule, core or splatbook, that specifies a size category you cannot sneak attack.
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Sejs
First Post
As several people have pointed out already - there's tons of places that are vital that are in the legs and lower torso alone.
Femoral artery, achilies tendon, knee tendons, knee cap, pelvic loops, base of the spine, genitals, rectum, hip sockets.. the list goes on and on. Any one of those would be just dandy for sneak attacking.
As for the 'you can't reach' part of his argument, let's see.. a 5 ft tall elf, say a 2 ft 4in reach with his arms roughly, and a 3 ft rapier. You could easily poke something 9ft tall. You could stab that troll in the EYES if you so wanted. Besides, if he really wants to argue it, just remind him you threaten 5 ft in all directions.. including straight up, and diagonally up/out.
Femoral artery, achilies tendon, knee tendons, knee cap, pelvic loops, base of the spine, genitals, rectum, hip sockets.. the list goes on and on. Any one of those would be just dandy for sneak attacking.
As for the 'you can't reach' part of his argument, let's see.. a 5 ft tall elf, say a 2 ft 4in reach with his arms roughly, and a 3 ft rapier. You could easily poke something 9ft tall. You could stab that troll in the EYES if you so wanted. Besides, if he really wants to argue it, just remind him you threaten 5 ft in all directions.. including straight up, and diagonally up/out.
Dark Dragon
Explorer
Thanx for helping out with arguments to leave the rules as they are. Hopefully, we can can now convince our DM to change his opinion (nobody's perfect and he's DMing the first time using 3E rules, but he knows the rules for three years now).
Gez
First Post
Re: Re: Vital spot OR Can a halfling sneak attack a human?
I'm sorry to be rude against him, but I thoroughly agree he's one, at least on this subject.
Halflings or goblins have rogues has fav. class, and it's not only to fight kobolds !
He seems to be the kind of DM who think he's here to screw the PCs (and/or the players); or maybe he just think he can't manage stories about competent heroes, just stories about pitiful wankers who fail everything they try, so he deny players the possibility to have useful PCs. Do he also send wild magic and dead magic zone at the party wizard, surprise attack the party consistently during rest periods so that the party fighter can't have his armor put on, and so that arcane spellcasters can't have their unbroken 8 hours of rest to regain their spells ?
Or maybe he's just a paranoid DM, thinking players are just there to powergame and munchkinize and thus ruin the grand splendid saga he's cooked, so any attempts at being efficient is seen as a personal attack against his ego ?
What's sad is he don't even have to cheat in order to screw a rogue. Any concealment negates the possibility of sneak attack, so he just has to use thick fog (or, for rogues who don't have darkvision nor low-light vision) dark shadows... Displacement, constructs, undead, oozes, plants, and armors of fortification work also.
Pooka said:
I'm sorry to be rude against him, but I thoroughly agree he's one, at least on this subject.
Halflings or goblins have rogues has fav. class, and it's not only to fight kobolds !
He seems to be the kind of DM who think he's here to screw the PCs (and/or the players); or maybe he just think he can't manage stories about competent heroes, just stories about pitiful wankers who fail everything they try, so he deny players the possibility to have useful PCs. Do he also send wild magic and dead magic zone at the party wizard, surprise attack the party consistently during rest periods so that the party fighter can't have his armor put on, and so that arcane spellcasters can't have their unbroken 8 hours of rest to regain their spells ?
Or maybe he's just a paranoid DM, thinking players are just there to powergame and munchkinize and thus ruin the grand splendid saga he's cooked, so any attempts at being efficient is seen as a personal attack against his ego ?
What's sad is he don't even have to cheat in order to screw a rogue. Any concealment negates the possibility of sneak attack, so he just has to use thick fog (or, for rogues who don't have darkvision nor low-light vision) dark shadows... Displacement, constructs, undead, oozes, plants, and armors of fortification work also.
Mark Chance
Boingy! Boingy!
melkoriii said:
Makes sense to me. My current campaign's group of adventurers met and formed after they entered the zone and began shouting, "LFG!"
