Vote for the Most Powerful Arcane Spell Level...(?)

[AeroDm]

Well... personally i see it as a great opportunity (as a DM) to cut down on the power of spell casters...

Check out this thread where I discuss this with Dandu (in another of our usual heated-up debates...)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/306331-d-d-3-5-harvesting-dragonhide.html

I think that thread is really instructive in the answers to this thread. I agree and disagree with both of you. I may be summarizing with an axe when a scalpel is preferred, but I think an important element of both threads is in how the various tools of balance are used to balance. You seem to enjoy limiting players with the full breadth of the rules (i.e. stealing component pouches, limiting gold, etc). Other people have decided that they enjoy playing a campaign in which the players are wealthy or a campaign in which players do not have their equipment routinely stolen. Neither approach is superior to the other, they are just different manners of playing the game. (Also, please read both of those style of play positively--they can both lead to really, really enjoyable games).

Because you enjoy all those things, you have more opportunities to balance classes. Because other people do not enjoy some facets of those things, they have less opportunities to balance classes and therefore find them overpowered. My comment above was pointing out that I think it is bad game design that someone might be obliged to play in a style they don't prefer to balance a class.

 

[Jimlock]

Here's an interesting semi-serious question. 5th level spells are among the voting leaders. 6th level spells have no votes.

As a caster, would you trade your 6th level spell slot for an additional 5th level spell slot? Are 5th level spells that good and 6th level that bad?

You might find this crazy but, with Silent Image being my favorite spell, I would never miss the opportunity of getting Permanent Image (the epitome of silent image)...

Other than that... I guess one could argue that anti magic field is pretty valuable to let go...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Here's an interesting semi-serious question. 5th level spells are among the voting leaders. 6th level spells have no votes.

As a caster, would you trade your 6th level spell slot for an additional 5th level spell slot? Are 5th level spells that good and 6th level that bad?

As a 3.XE character, you can?

Sorcerers can expend a higher-level slot to cast a lower-level spell (and with a metamagic feat and a full-round action, they can get some benefit from doing this), and any prepared caster can elect to prepare a spell in a higher-level slot.

 

[Jimlock]

You seem to enjoy limiting players with the full breadth of the rules (i.e. stealing component pouches, limiting gold, etc).

oh...I do not enjoy limiting anyone... What i really enjoy is when all players around the table are having fun.

And one of the reasons they are heaving fun is because they get an almost equal share of the pie...

Moreover, I do not feel restricted to do it by RAW...I can always change whatever I like so as to balance the game...

Having said that, a few RAW "tips & tricks" can come in handy so as to convince the raging Rules-Lawyer-player...

Real problems come with Divine spellcasters, not so much of a RAW back up there... but I get it done my way after all...

My comment above was pointing out that I think it is bad game design that someone might be obliged to play in a style they don't prefer to balance a class.

Oh I asure you I do not play like that so as to balance my classes... I just like magic being somewhat rare... this fits both my tastes and the balance of my games.

If I liked playing in worlds abundant of magic (a thing that will never happen...but still) i would have house-ruled the whole thing...



The way i see it, is that they intentionally let this "flexibility" in the books.

Declaring/being-sure of what is balanced and what isn't... is a very difficult thing to do...

It requires LOTS and LOTS of playtesting... and most of the times this is not enough either...

...because the combinations of encounters/rules/situations are actually innumerable...

so the best thing to do is to introduce this flexibility, as well as a certain "vagueness" in the books so as to allow for customization...

That way... each game group can find it's own balance...(if indeed they are looking for it)

This flexibility does not cover every aspect of the game... that's certain...

But we can find it in more places than we actually think, if we look closer...

 

[AeroDm]

Just for clarity- I didn't mean "limiting players" to sound pejorative. I think it is the DMs job to limit players in creative and dynamic ways. I was merely pointing out that some DMs like to avoid limiting players in certain ways (such as stealing equipment) and that has ramifications on the game and balance.

 

[Jimlock]

Just for clarity- I didn't mean "limiting players" to sound pejorative. I think it is the DMs job to limit players in creative and dynamic ways. I was merely pointing out that some DMs like to avoid limiting players in certain ways (such as stealing equipment) and that has ramifications on the game and balance.

Stealing equipement can get ugly... but it's part of the game.

It shouldn't be abused by the DM... otherwise it starts looking like a coup d'état from the part of the DM...

Rogues are much more fearful that way...

I like how it affects players on really paying attention to their equipment.



...a Wizard that walks into the Inn with all his pouches exposed... is not a very good idea...

 

[xigbar]

I'm surprised 4th doesn't have more votes from the master of absurdity, Polymorph.

 

[Jimlock]

I'm surprised 4th doesn't have more votes from the master of absurdity, Polymorph.

right! it is weird...

 

[draconlord]

I picked fifth because as a beguiler, simply nothing trumps the sheer awesomeness of dominate person &hold monster. Also, Feeblemind is a blatant "I Win" button in caster duels.


2nd level is pretty good, as I frequently use glitterdust. (with greater invisibility, 4th isn't bad)

In the one session where I played a level 12, I often used level 6 slots for level 5 spells.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I think I want to change my answer. I chose level 9 for the "Duh" factor, but I think if I could choose again it'd be level 7.

This is for the Plane Shift and Greater Teleport spells. Now, no DM would be able to handle this realistically in game, but once an individual has the ability to cross planar and spacial barriers, this person can go literally Anywhere. The Multiverse is suddenly at your fingertips. You can be in any environment, make friends or enemies with any sort of creature. This is the point of suddenly having No limits in my mind, way before Wish and Timestop.