Warblade and Swordsage: Overpowered?

[Nightfall]

Why? No one expects the Nightfall "post em when people don't expect em!" dealio.
Glad you liked it though.

 

[Paradigm]

You could try this:


MITHRIL FULL PLATE IS TREATED AT MEDIUM ARMOR.

Like so...

 

[FireLance]

You could try this:


MITHRIL FULL PLATE IS TREATED AT MEDIUM ARMOR.

Like so...

FireLance say: he who use big red bold underlined capital letters should proofread before post.

 

[BASHMAN]

I don't know about that. There's often a significant opportunity cost to using a manuever since many replace your normal attack action. While monk abilities are generally less powerful, they easily work in conjunction with each other. My monk ended up using pretty much all of his combat abilities at the same time, while the swordsage can generally only run any one of his stances, plus any one of his strikes, plus any one of his boosts at any given moment. And Greater Flurry is no small thing either. Plus since the swordsage recovery method kind of sucks and they can only ready one copy of a manuever, it seems likely they'll burn through their better moves rather quickly - or they'll won't have the chance to use their larger array of manuevers.
.

I agree completely. My character is a Level 15Monk/Level 1 Swordsage (trying to become a shadowsun ninja) and I have to say, that a lot of the swordsage manuvers (or any of the martial adept manuvers) lack one major thing-- the ability to take a full attack action. For this reason, my monk uses normal attacks most of the time. I only use my manuvers when I move.

The only exception is that I have a boost (tiger's leap) that lets me take a jump as a swift action instead of a move action. This, in turn, allows me to jump up to an enemy (with my 30+ jump check) and unload my full attack action on him. However, I do it once, and I cannot do it again until after combat. There is a 2nd Level druid spell (lion's charge) that essentially allows the same thing, so I don't think it is very broken at all.

Now my more potent manuvers essentially require me to give up my full attack action to do them. Since I am in a mixed level game, where my 16th level character is fighting alongside 23rd level wizards and rangers, there are plenty of enemies that have DR/Epic or DR/- that we have to face. Without the Stone Hammer strike, when we encounter such creatures, I might as well just go home for the evening, because I am worthless. Stone Hammer actually levels the playing field a bit, allowing me to make a single attack against such creatures (and making it worth my while to show up to game).

I did chose one manuver mainly because I found it humorous-- Comet Throw. Grab an enemy, throw him at another enemy, watch them both take 4d6 dmg. This is a 4th level manuver, however. A 4th Level spell doing 4d6 dmg to two creatures, after requiring you to make 2 successful dice contests with them AND gives a reflex save for half would be a joke. Which is partly why I chose it, for laughs. Unfortunatly, our DM does not make us fight mooks very often. It is usually 1 or 2 big-bad monsters, which are too big for me even to try this on... Phooey

 

[BASHMAN]

Most useful instance would be Improved Unarmed Strike after being taken prisoner. Otherwise, I guess if you invested in Longsword and then found a great magical battleaxe or something.

That is a good idea with the unarmed strike.

However, a WB or SS or Crusader have to be VERY CAREFUL about their choice of weapons. It is a very delacate game, because you can only use certain manuvers with certain weapons. There is very little overlap between schools and weapons allowed.

There are 2 schools that allow bastard sword, and 2 schools that allow Great-Sword and 2 schools that allow Great-Axe. Unarmed strike is the weapon allowed by the most schools-- 3.

For this reason, your character will need to carry around at least 2 weapons or take Improved Unarmed Strike as a feat unless you plan on restricting yourself to ONLY 2 fighting schools that have a common weapon.

Currently, I am working on a Warblade who is going to emulate Mad Mardigan from the Willow movie. He will use Bastard Sword so he can use Diamond Mind and Iron Heart manuvers, and Improved Unarmed Strike (and a mace) so he can use Stone Dragon (taken mainly in order to gain the Stone Power feat [which is VERY useful for Crusaders, btw, but I digress].

In essence, though the reason that the ability to change your weapon feats is important is if you start focusing on using a different school, that requires a different weapon, you want your feats to jive with that weapon. If you want to change your focus from Diamond Mind to Tiger Claw, for instance, you might want to change your weapon feats from Bastard Sword to Kukri.

 

[Victim]

Nothing says that you have to use the weapons of a discipline with its manuevers. Some characters will have a bonus when doing so, but it's not required.

 

[BASHMAN]

Nothing says that you have to use the weapons of a discipline with its manuevers. Some characters will have a bonus when doing so, but it's not required.

I guess it does not say that, specifically, but it seems to be implied, and it seems to go against the spirit of the school to use different weapons with it. However, you do have a point in that the Mountain Hammer manuver has an illustration of somebody using a hammer to strike an enemy, when ironically enough, Stone Dragon does not have Hammer as a weapon choice.

Personally though I use only the weapons it says with individual manuvers because 1. it seems more balanced that way and 2. I feel like I am cheating if I don't.

My monk15/Swordsage1 fights with a Spiked Chain and Unarmed Strikes. Only when using a shadowhand manuver do I ever use the spiked chain-- otherwise, I am using the unarmed strikes, because Setting Sun and Tiger Claw don't have Spiked Chain on their lists.

Do I feel this is restrictive? Yes, it is-- but I think there should be some sort of check on the martial adept's power, and also, it is more in spirit with the idea that you are emulating a fighting style when you stick to weapons prescribed by that style. If you use a greatsword to do Setting Sun manuvers, it does not seem right.

 

[FireLance]

I agree completely. My character is a Level 15Monk/Level 1 Swordsage (trying to become a shadowsun ninja) and I have to say, that a lot of the swordsage manuvers (or any of the martial adept manuvers) lack one major thing-- the ability to take a full attack action. For this reason, my monk uses normal attacks most of the time. I only use my manuvers when I move.

The only exception is that I have a boost (tiger's leap) that lets me take a jump as a swift action instead of a move action. This, in turn, allows me to jump up to an enemy (with my 30+ jump check) and unload my full attack action on him. However, I do it once, and I cannot do it again until after combat.

Boosts, rather than strikes, probably work better for a multiclassed character, especially a monk. For example, Burning Blade (I think) from Desert Wind adds fire damage to each successful attack, and can work well with a monk's flurry of blows. In addition, a swordsage can spend a full-round action to recover a maneuver, but he will generally be better off doing something else.

 

[BASHMAN]

Boosts, rather than strikes, probably work better for a multiclassed character, especially a monk. For example, Burning Blade (I think) from Desert Wind adds fire damage to each successful attack, and can work well with a monk's flurry of blows. In addition, a swordsage can spend a full-round action to recover a maneuver, but he will generally be better off doing something else.

Yeah, but I don't think Desert wind goes with unarmed strikes (yes, on some technicality it never says you have to use weapons from your fighting style, but that is frankly dumb. Just like Adaptive Style refreshing your used manuvers is dumb.)

FYI, people Just because someone at WOTC said something dumb, does not mean you have to buy it.

 

[glass]

*fails Will save* Damnit, I really wanted to leave this tangent alone!

I'm sorry glass, but you'll have to point us in the direction of this "Full Plate Proficiency". Hint: It doesn't exist.

Which would be relevant if I had said it did. But since I quite clearly said that full plate requires Heavy Armour Proficiency, which I'm reasonably certain does exist.

Mithril Full Plate is treated as medium armor. How could that be clearer?

It is treated as medium armour, which indicates that it isn't medium armour. Your're right that is pretty clear.

The Mithral Full Plate of Speed doesn't specify for what purposes it is and isn't considered medium (maybe it would be clearer if it did), thankfully the general description of mithral says:

Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.

Movement and other limitations. No mention of proficiency.


glass.